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Nobel scientist discovers scientific basis of homeopathy

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Rosemary, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. Rosemary

    Rosemary Senior Member

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    http://www.wddty.com/nobel-scientist-discovers-scientific-basis-of-homeopathy.html

    In the week that doctors have described homeopathy as nonsense on stilts, a Nobel prize-winning scientist has made a discovery about the nature of water that suggests the therapy does have a scientific basis. Professor Luc Montagnier, a French virologist who won the Nobel prize for discovering a link between HIV and AIDS, has shocked fellow Nobel prize-winners by telling them that water has a memory that continues even after many dilutions. The idea is one of the foundations of homeopathy, which maintains that the potency of a substance is increased with its dilution. Montagnier has discovered that solutions containing the DNA of viruses and bacteria could emit low frequency radio waves. These waves influence molecules around them, and turn them into organised structures. These molecules in turn can emit waves. He has discovered that the waves remain in the water, even after it has been diluted many times. Montagniers statement couldnt happen at a worse time for doctors. Last week, the UKs British Medical Association (BMA) the trade union of doctors passed a resolution to stop homeopathy being made available on the National Health Service. It also wants all homeopathic remedies to be placed in a special area marked Placebos in health shops and pharmacies. The NHS currently spends around 4m a year on homeopathy, mainly by funding four homeopathic hospitals in the UK.
    (Sources: Sunday Times, July 4, 2010; British Medical Association) .
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Great find! This is going to drive the "quackbusters" crazy.
  3. busybee

    busybee Senior Member

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    :D I know where I want to post this:Retro tongue:
  4. muffin

    muffin Senior Member

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    http://www.whatthebleep.com/ Amazing Video - I and many others thought

    http://www.whatthebleep.com/

    Amazing video. Worth watching over and over since there is so much going on. The video is based on science, looks odd at first, but by the end you get it. Water has "emotions". They show photos of water bottles that have been labeled with tags that say HAPPY, SAD, etc. and use hard rock, soft music, etc around the water and then photograph the water after it "reacts" to the words, music, etc. Must see the video to really undertand. The photos of unhappy water versus happy water are mind-blowing. I thought at first I would think this video was fluff and stupid, but both my husband and everyone else who has viewed it that we know is blown away. Gave it to my Internist (who had a background in Physics in College before going pre-med). Really blows your mind.

    "Masaru Emoto speaks about his water research. Learn how you can affect water with your thoughts and words and what you can do to preserve this precious resource. In Japanese with English translation. Includes: The Hidden Messages In Water Vibrations History Tells Us Resonance Frequency Wonders Of Water Water Crystals"

    from Wiki: "Masaru Emoto (江本勝 Emoto Masaru?, born July 22, 1943) is a Japanese author and entrepreneur known for his claim that if human speech or thoughts are directed at water droplets before they are frozen, images of the resulting water crystals will be "beautiful" or "ugly" depending upon whether the words or thoughts were positive or negative. Emoto claims this can be achieved through prayer, music or by attaching written words to a container of water.
    Since 1999 Emoto has published several volumes of a work titled Messages from Water, which contains photographs of water crystals next to essays and "words of intent."

    AND THE CRITIC'S SIDE:
    Commentators have criticized Emoto for insufficient experimental controls,[6] and for not sharing enough details of his approach with the scientific community.[7] In addition, Emoto has been criticized for designing his experiments in ways that leave them open to human error influencing his findings."
  5. muffin

    muffin Senior Member

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    USA!
    WATER HAS MEMORY
    by Fang Hong
    Spanish version
    April 2003
    from PureInsight Website

    In June 1988, the French scientist Jacques Benveniste, M.D. published an astonishing research paper in Nature, which indicated that water has memory. The paper immediately caused a great disturbance in the scientific community, where opposition to his findings was substantial.

    Biochemical experiments have confirmed that the IgE antibody can stimulate basophils to degranulate. In Benveniste’s experiment, however, after the IgE solution was diluted to 10-120, active degranulation of basophils still occurred. Theoretically, [based upon Avogadro’s number of the possible number of molecules in a solution of a substance] such a dilution would have no molecules of the antibody. This demonstrates that water preserves the characteristics of substances with which it has had contact.

    This conclusion seemed to violate common sense. Many people disputed Benveniste’s findings. Consequently, he lost his laboratory, funding, job and even his credibility as a scientist. Fortunately, a progressive private research company hired him to continue his work.

    There had not been any evident resolution for the “Benveniste incident” until 1999, when four laboratories in different European countries conducted independent experiments. Their findings demonstrated that extremely diluted solutions still preserved the effect of the original solutions that degranulated basophils. People started to think that Benveniste had been right.

    Benveniste’s experiment required that at each dilution, the solution had to be shaken vigorously. His experiment demonstrated that a substance that is dissolved in water passes on its own characteristics to the water. Even if there is no more of the original substance, its characteristics still remain.

    Benveniste’s findings are not isolated.

    Dr. Masaru Emoto, a Japanese researcher whose experiments have been described in previous weeks in these pages, claimed in the report on his water crystal experiment,
    “All the characteristics of substances will affect the characteristic of the water.”
    Benveniste’s experiment studied the influence of substances diluted and agitated in water, whereas Emoto’s water crystal experiment studied the effects of thoughts and music on water. Emoto’s findings are even more astounding because they seem to indicate that water can recognize the content of thoughts and words and distinguish good ones from evil.

    One would be hard put to cite existing scientific theory to explain these findings and so they certainly provide fertile ground for further investigation.



    References
    http://www.digibio.com/cgi-bin/node.pl?lg=us&nd=n4_1 , “Human Basophil Degranulation Triggered by Very Dilute Antiserum Against IgE” by J. Benveniste et al, Nature, Vol. 333, No. 6176, pp. 816-818, 30th June, 1988 C Macmillan Magazines Ltd., 1989

    http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Homoeopathy/fisher49.htm , Belon P, Cumps J, Mannajoni PF, Ste-Laudy J, Roberfroid M, Wiegant FAC. Inhibition of human basophil degranulation by successive histamine dilutions: results of a European multi-centre trial. Inflamm res . 48 supplement 1: S17-18. 1999.

    • Translated from: http://www.zhengjian.org/zj/articles/2003/3/9/20747.html
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    LOL. I think I know where you're talkin' about... :)

    Thanks for this Rosemary. Anyone who thinks that homeopathy is quack science should tell that to Andrea Whittemore...
  7. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    What an amazing story! A Nobel laureate endorsing the science of homeopathy!!! who would've ever thought? (I wonder if he has someone, or if he personally, has benefited from it. Thanks
  8. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Hi muffin,

    Thanks for posting. I watched this a couple of years ago. If I am not mistaken one of the people in this video is Dr. Candace Pert. She appears to be the same Candace Pert who has done research on Substance P.

    Hysterical
  9. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I once had a book on how ones thoughts affects water crystals with photos of the water, i cant remember what it was called now but it was a great book (I ended up giving it t an open minded priest to show him how thoughts affect things).

    i loved "what the bleep" (or whatever its called.. for some reason i thought that had a longer name.. CFS confusion day today for me), i recommended people to watch it. Watched the DVD with a friend several years ago.

    Ive used homoeopathy with great success for some things even for CFS symptoms. It was homoeopathy which removed the bothersome CFS constant unquenshible thirst (which used to wake me up ,up to 7 times a night for water and still leave me feeling thirsty). So it was fundermental to helping me to be able to sleep.
    (It was an experienced homoeopathic practioner who made the med and gave it to me so i have no idea what it was so cant suggest that exact one to anyone else, with homoeopaths.. ALL symptoms are considered when choosing a homoeopathic med so what is good for one person may not be the very best for another).

    i had a rabbit and homoeopathy save its life (it developed a whole body infection under it's skin and had a big hole in its side (it got caught on wire from cage and ripped and then infection.. pressing on its body would gooze out pus from the hole from which i also could see its insides). Im sure the vet would of put my bunny down so i didnt take to vet and treated it with homeopathics and within 5 days, bunny was all happy again and infection completely gone and hole starting to heal up. (When it comes to pets it cant be a placebo affect).

    Also saved another rabbits leg which somehow got string caught about it and cut off circulation.. leg swelled up in places and withered in other places and went hard and completely black appearing like leg had died (within 2 days of using homoeopathics.. leg was healthy again).

    i also used homoeopathics on my daughter when she was in hospital and developed complications after a surgery. So i signed her out against doctors wishes and carried her from hospital to treat as i didnt want her to be given drugs and believed homoeopathic meds would fix, she's always been great with those and had never been given drugs in her life again (other than anaesthetics for surgery) since she had a bad reaction after a vaccination.

    After surgery she developed a high fever after surgery and was hanging limp and nearly unconscious with it, within half an hr to an hr of being given homoepathics, she was good and up on her feet and running around.

    So i think homoeopathics can be amazing for some things, pity thou it cant fix CFS thou it will help some symptoms.
  10. willow

    willow Senior Member

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    Great news!

    Thanks so much for posting. The impact of homeopathy on my health, though not necessairly smooth, is unequivocal. Maybe it will make life with my orthodox scientist friends less quarrelsome.
  11. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    I tried a hundred types of homeopatic stuff and to me it is not even placebo, it is just scam, and the homeopathists scammers. I never heard of anyone for whom it worked a little bit. When we talk about these "alternative medicines", I think that a minimum success rate must be proven, because it is not even for free or cheap, it is expensive, difficult to follow and while you are focusing on it you are wasting a precious time and money. I tried homeopathy for not just CFS but for almost any symptom or part of my illness along years and never ever worked.
  12. willow

    willow Senior Member

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    I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences with homeopathy.

    I've only had 3 practitioners treat me with any homeopathy. With all I've seen something, though not necessarily wows. The current one is showing potentially significant gains. All in it costs me 30-50 a month, IMO very cost effective. No other medicine. conventional, herbal,nutrtional or other sort has done more. The only other things that help me are the low cost things like good diet, toxin limitation etc.
  13. Min

    Min Senior Member

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    Me too, should keep the busy for months.

    Have to say I tried it with a well respected doctor and it did nothing for me.
  14. camas

    camas Senior Member

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    How interesting! Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I've had some luck with homeopathy -- nothing earth shattering -- but I have one remedy that's been quite helpful in easing some of my neurological symptoms.

    If you are hypersensitive to drugs you might also want to proceed cautiously with homeopathy. My doctor started me on a 6c of my current remedy after some mishaps with other remedies. I've been on this for years and continue to work up slowly in 50c increments as it loses its effectiveness. The downside is that I have to pay a little more to have the remedy made up special, but it's been worth it.
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    I wonder what the Queen of England is going to say about this - she always carries a homeopathic medicine chest on all her travels.

    I've had some success with homeopathy (from time to time).

    I'm of the opinion, that it it doesn't hurt & actually does you some good, what's the problem in using it.
  16. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Just wondering if you saw a reputable homeopathic doctor?

    The doc I saw years ago (years before I got CFS) was an M.D., who after years of trying to help people actually heal, rather than just temporarily suppress their symptoms with various drugs, went back to school to study homeopathy. She was still able to prescribe drugs if absolutely necessary, but tried to rely on homeopathics as much as possible, and I for one know that it definitely helped me live through four years of extreme physical and mental stress while I took care of my dying mother 24/7 for 3-4 years.

    I guess my point is that this is one area where a doctors experience and expertise is very important, and self-prescribing is almost always a waste of time. It's virtually impossible for one to be objective about one's overall symptoms, mental and physical, which is essential w/homeopathy.

    I'd go back to her in a heartbeat if I could afford it and could get to her clinic (which is now 50 miles away).
  17. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    As did the Queen Mum...and she lived to be...101?
  18. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    Yes, very reputable. I spent a lot of money when I still had money and this man was internationally reknown in this field and very expensive. To me it's a fraud and should be forbidden along with many other alternative therapies. Funny enough only real doctors who do real medicine and spend years studying at a real and serious university are attacked and sued, but not all these other scammers that get our money for millions without any liability.

    Seriously, if homeopathy worked, we all would know it. Everyone has tried it at some point. Forget about those urban legends of the royal families of every country. It's the same lie everywhere and they always spread that lie about the royal family using homeopathy. In the UK, in Sweden, in Spain... It's a fraud, and we CFSers should not spend a cent of our broken and anguishful economies in them.

    If someone as desperate to find a cure as I was is reading this, please think it twice before spending your money in it.
  19. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Royal family using homeopathy

    It's not an urban myth that the royal family strongly supports hopeopathic medicine!!!!!!!! I'm amazed you didn't know about the passionate involvement of Prince Charles.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...backed-homeopathy-secret-talks-ministers.html
    "Prince Charles last night stood accused of secretly lobbying ministers in support of using discredited homeopathic medicines on the NHS.
    The Department of Health has admitted for the first time that homeopathy has been discussed at private meetings between ministers and the prince, a strong supporter of alternative therapies. "

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...homeopathy-must-be-saved-from-new-eu-rules.do
    "Prince Charles: Alternative medicine must be saved from new EU rulesSophie Goodchild and Sri Carmichael
    01.12.09
    Prince Charles is urging the Government to protect the future of alternative medicine and ensure the safety of its patients."
  20. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Thanks for the great links - very interesting.

    My own experience with homeopathic treatment was very positive. After 11 years of symptom suppressing hospital treatment for congenital toxoplasmosis, a homeopathic practitioner (to whom I was referred by an experienced and well respected MD) improved my condition over 6 months to the point I've been completely med free, and hospital free, for 14 years now. Happy days.

    (I wouldn't state categorically that homeopathy is right for everyone though, that would be as absurd as stating it couldn't possibly right for anyone.)

    Thanks again for posting :)

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