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NK cell deficiencies is susceptibility to herpesviruses

Discussion in 'Active Clinical Studies' started by heapsreal, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Something we all know and this isnt knowingly done with ME/cfs people. But its these sort of studies why i cant understand me/cfs isnt taken seriously by alot of docs and scientists. I think it comes down to the name of this dam illness, if it was called NK cell defiency illness like this study then alot more people would get treated properly. And this study is almost 10 years old, what the ????????????
    Could this be a seperate sub group of me/cfs or a different illness altogether. Theoretically your a cfs patient until they find an abnormality/condition and if u have nk dysfunction u then move out of the cfs illness and into having an Nk defiency illness. Is this the patient group that dr lerner is having success treating. Just food for thought.

    cheers!!!






    Microbes Infect. 2002 Dec;4(15):1545-58.

    Human natural killer cell deficiencies and susceptibility to infection.

    Orange JS.


    Source

    Division of Immunology, Children's Hospital and Department of Pediatrics, Harvard Medical School, 300 Longwood Avenue, MA, Boston, USA. Jordan.orange@tch.harvard.edu


    Abstract

    There are a surprisingly large number of human natural killer (NK) cell deficiency states that provide insight into the role of NK cells in defense against human infectious disease. Many disorders associated with NK cell defects are caused by single gene mutations and, thus, give additional understanding concerning the function of specific molecules in NK cell development and activities. A resounding theme of NK cell deficiencies is susceptibility to herpesviruses, suggesting that unexplained severe herpesviral infection should raise the possibility of an NK cell deficit
    .

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12505527
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  2. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi heapsreal, I had a brief look around similar articles, but very few are available as PDF. One thing that came up in several articles is that different causes of NK cell deficiency are associated with different pathogen susceptibilities. It was also apparent that NK cell deficiencies occur in at least several systemic immunodeficiency/autoimmunity states, such as rheumatoid arthritis. Except for cases where there is a primary genetic defect driving the NK cell deficiency, I am not sure it is a good name substitute for ME. It is more likely that the NK cell deficiency is as a result of ME than a cause, but it is very likely part of the reason why we get so many infections, including herpes viruses. Certainly a reduced capacity to remove infected cells could at least partly explain why so many tissues in our bodies have a high viral load. Bye, Alex
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  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Agree with ya. Maybe the bond uni nk function study is showing a more specific type of nk dysfunction with bright and dim cell function which is different to the nk function testing klimas does. My last nk test actually showed my general function was high but my nk bright cell was extremely low. more studies are needed i guess. I suppose with any type of immune defiency would make someone prone to any type of infection but this study seems to show nk dysfunction is common with the herpes viruses, it would be interesting to see if nk dysfunction is common in chronic bacterial infections like mycoplasma in those that dont have herpes viruses reactivating. At the end of the day its all a guide, nothing is concrete yet.

    cheers!!!
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  4. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    I quite agree - if not the cause it sounds a good guide, epecially as I had so many symptoms of the various Herpes viruses in the early days.
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  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    enid, have antivirals helped u?
    They have definately helped me but still something not quite right, probably other co-infection, like my sinuses
  6. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi heapsreal, some of the studies I briefly looked at pointed to bacterial infections as well in a subset with NK cell dysfunction. It is not just herpes viruses. There might be a lot known on this topic, but a lot of it is hard for me to get hold of. Bye, Alex
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  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Nothing given/allowed here heapsreal - Docs in the Stone Age (thanks to SW) but at a critical stage I was allowed neurontin allowing sleep etc. - ie clearly a neurological infection as Herpes viruses do. What to suggest to my Doc is difficult too as so many are currently being tried out I see in Aus and the US.Sinuses do flare up regularly and I'm convinced of a resevoir eg tonsils. An interesting result came from high dose amoxcillin for bacterial infection following teeth extractions - everything settled (including GI problems) for a while on these secondary infections.
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  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    i read sinus infections cause gut infections from post nasal drip where it drips down back of throat.
    Av's u can do a shonky an order online without a script
  9. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Many thanks heapsreal I'll look now with Winter (worst) on the way.
  10. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    I've just replied with thanks to very useful anti-viral information PM'd heapsreal but Box full at the moment. Hoping your own medications are aiding you too. Light years ahead of us in Aus though I know you would wish more so. All the very best to you. Enid.
  11. Sissy's Mom

    Sissy's Mom

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    Hi Alex, this is my first post to the forum....please bear with me! My daughter has been diagnosed recently by Dr. Lerner with CMV, and Rheumatic Fever. Treatment regimen includes both antibiotic and antiviral therapy. My take is the RF lowered her immune system allowing opportunistic infection such as HH6EBV (which she has had in the past) and now CMV.
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  12. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Sometimes it a chicken or the egg thing, was it rheumatic fever that lowered he immunity or did she have low immunity that left her open to rheumatic fever and that made everything worse again. If current theory on retroviruses is right then it lowers immunity and things like rheumatic fever could be opportunistic as well. All that can be tried is to treat active infections, try to boost immune system and treat symptoms to reduce stress and make comfortable as possible. Dr lerner is a good cfs doc who has had alot of success with treating cfs.

    good luck.
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  13. Sissy's Mom

    Sissy's Mom

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    Thanks....Dr. Lerner says given her age, our daughter should recover much of her former health. He is indeed a good doctor and wonderful man....very caring. You are of course correct with the chicken/egg theory....our experience with our daughter is the strep issues began before the viral infections, but it's hard to say when the autoimmu ne process of RF began.

    Take care.
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  14. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    sickof,

    does dr lerner to nk function testing and if so do u see improvement when antivirals are used?

    cheers!!!
  15. Sissy's Mom

    Sissy's Mom

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    Great to hear your experience with Dr. Lerner, and so happy to hear your daughter is in remission! My girl is 20, and has been sick for 8 years. Full remission would be a dream come true! We were so relieved to FINALLY find a Dr. that listened and understood what she had been going through. Wishing you continued success with your recovery.
  16. vli

    vli

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    I totally agree.
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  17. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    I agree too, Heaps and vli.
    Infact if I preface a visit to dr by saying I have orthostatic intolerance they take it much more seriously, even if they re not ware of what that is exactly; same when you say ME ; then when you explain that was formerly called CFS the expression on their face changes; have had that happen so often. That is why I prefer ME to CFS, so it will be taken serioulsy by the medical profession.
  18. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Was it the Japanese who were using the term "low natural killer cell something" as a syndrome or disease name?
  19. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Yes there has been some info that the japanese use this term after discovering the the low nk function. Its ounds like an appropriate name as its describing the illness by abnormalities found in a lab measurement, hard to argue.
  20. alice

    alice Senior Member

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    Enid, am I understanding you correctly in saying that when you were given high dose amoxicillin for bacterial infection, that you felt better. This happened to me--my primary doctor prescribed Cipro (yes, I know, dangerous drug, but that's another story for another time) for a urinary tract infection while I was battling a flareup of colitis. I;m on long term Valtrex, artensuate, GcMaf etc. But anyway, starting with 6th day of dosing Cipro I felt better than I have for a long time -( took Cipro for 7 days). Felt good 2 more days and then back to usual.

    So maybe there is chronic bacterial infection that needs chronic tx also. Will discuss with doctor next week. Have others experienced this?

    alice

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