But the Lipkin grant was for $766,000 so the reason they gave wasn't consistent with what they were doing even for other ME projects, let alone other medical projects.
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NIH awards total of $1.3m to Lipkin, Klimas, Hanson
- Thread starter Sasha
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But the Lipkin grant was for $766,000 so the reason they gave wasn't consistent with what they were doing even for other ME projects, let alone other medical projects.
Yes it was a different department and the other, crucial difference is that Ron Davis's first request was for $5M (in annual awards of $1M over 5 years ). In a historical context, that's a LOT! of money for a study of ME.
@leokitten As you're 'our man at the NIH' I thought you would have the best chance of knowing the answer to my question.
The Award Notice Date to Hornig and Lipkin was August 14th. How long could a decision in principal have been in the pipeline? I'm thinking about timing with regard to @viggster's open letter to Francis Collins. Is that pure coincidence or could he have influenced the decision?
Within the last few months I vaguely remember either Lipkin or, more likely, Hornig (at the reddit Q&A, maybe) stating that NIH funds had been secured for ME but with no further information.
The Award Notice Date to Hornig and Lipkin was August 14th. How long could a decision in principal have been in the pipeline? I'm thinking about timing with regard to @viggster's open letter to Francis Collins. Is that pure coincidence or could he have influenced the decision?
Within the last few months I vaguely remember either Lipkin or, more likely, Hornig (at the reddit Q&A, maybe) stating that NIH funds had been secured for ME but with no further information.
A grant awarded in August underwent second-level review and advisory Council final decision usually two months prior back in May. Here's a good explanation:
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/researchfunding/grant/strategy/pages/5time.aspx
Well that's interesting. Thanks @leokitten
Lipkin already got knocked back twice for funding for ME/CFS as he described in this interview by Mindy Kitei (CFS Central) and I think we've all presumed that this was for the gut microbiome study. Does anyone know if that was ever conclusively confirmed?
In the pages that leokitten linked, it states that only one resubmission is allowed. I wonder if a special case was made for this award.
Lipkin already got knocked back twice for funding for ME/CFS as he described in this interview by Mindy Kitei (CFS Central) and I think we've all presumed that this was for the gut microbiome study. Does anyone know if that was ever conclusively confirmed?
In the pages that leokitten linked, it states that only one resubmission is allowed. I wonder if a special case was made for this award.
jimells
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The CFSAC meeting on Aug 18 would have been a perfect time for NIH to make a big announcement about the grant and puff themselves up a bit. Instead they used their platform to insult the researchers.
What the hell is going on here? Is it possible they are so incompetent that their own CFSAC rep doesn't know about a major grant for the very illness she is supposed to be working on?
Or is there some huge conflict going on behind the scenes between the researchers and NIH?
Kati
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There was a behind closed doors NIH meeting on July 28-29 to discuss grant aplications
Do you mean an exceptional behind closed doors meeting for ME/CFS?
The meeting on the 27/28 of July was a scheduled meeting (and not exceptional) of the ME/cfs SEP to review grants. fwiw - all of these meeting are conducted in secret.
You're absolutely right that that situation is weird as heck.
I seem to recall some NIH (?) person at the CFSAC encoraging researchers to re-submit grant applications that had been denied -- & to re-submit -- repeatedly, not just once. Wonder if that was a different department.
(Not to mention that continually re-submitting seems like a colossally inefficient way to do things.)
FancyMyBlood
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Interesting observation. I read Davis' letter yesterday and I believe he stated he didn't apply to NIAID because they don't fund ME/CFS research. Yet at the same they did fund Lipkin's research.
Would it be as easy as just reapply the grant proposal to NIAID? Wishful thinking, I know.
Edit: Here's the NIAID part of David's response to the NIH:
NIH: “I am writing to inform you that the NINDS Extramural Science Committee did not approve your request to submit an R01 application with a budget over $500,000 to NINDS. The Committee was concerned that the grant does not fall in the NINDS mission since it will measure markers and biomarkers in the peripheral blood from individuals with ME/CFS and there are no neurological outcomes in the grant. They also suggested that the application is more appropriate for NIAID, so I suggest you contact Program staff at NIAID to discuss whether or not the application is appropriate for their Institute.”
Response: I believe they don’t want to fund either grant and are pushing us to another Institute even though NIAID has publicly stated they will not support research on ME/CFS/SEID. The IOM report has made it clear that there are cognitive issues with this disease. The fact that many of our severe patients cannot talk, listen to spoken words or read should indicate neurological involvement possibly similar to stroke, which they clearly support. Furthermore, there is considerable research looking for blood biomarkers for stroke patients. I am mystified why if they support stroke and other neurological diseases, they refuse to support ME/CFS/SEID research. The IOM and P2P reports both state the urgent need for research support. This research proposal addresses many of the critical needs specified in these reports. This should be viewed as an opportunity for NIH to show leadership and quickly initiate research activity.
Very interesting overview of NIH's entire 2015 funding of ME/CFS studies by Cort.
There's a whole ton of stuff I'd never heard of there and it sounds (to a biological ignoramus, anyway) excellent.
It raises some very interesting questions (for me, anyway!) and I've started a thread about the apparent different scale and focus of work in the US and UK.
There's a whole ton of stuff I'd never heard of there and it sounds (to a biological ignoramus, anyway) excellent.
It raises some very interesting questions (for me, anyway!) and I've started a thread about the apparent different scale and focus of work in the US and UK.
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When looking again at RePORTER http://projectreporter.nih.gov/project_info_details.cfm?aid=9102389&icde=25862560
I realize that Lipkin's project was funded as an R56, so this could be the reason. See more info here http://grants.nih.gov/grants/funding/r56.htm
Well spotted. I'd never have realised the significance. So the grant code is hidden in the project number. It took me a while to see it.
Hmmmm.
Highlighting from http://grants.nih.gov/grants/funding/r56.htm:
Meaning that Lipkin's R01 grant application did not receive a high enough ranking to be fundable but the NIH decided that it was high-priority enough to give it interim funding for one year so that he can gather additional data to revise his R01 application.
http://www.cfscentral.com/2014/05/candid-conversation-with-dr-ian-lipkin.html
I'd hazard a guess that if he's required to submit another R01, it will be for appearances.Ian Lipkin said:
Hopefully after getting $733,000 from NIAID he will have some interesting results in a year so that when he resubmits for an R01 to continue he will have more data to stand on as this will help focus on particular hypotheses and push up his review scores.
This is why I find the situation so weird although I'm sure that there is something I'm not understanding. I'm trying to make sense of a system that I'm unfamiliar with on limited facts.
The combined total of the crowdfund (including that recent $0.5M donation) and the NIAID grant is approximately $1.5M.
I seem to recall that the original goal was $1.27M for the full study. So it's hard to see how the $733,000 R56 grant can be considered interim since it should allow the study to be completed. Of course, the results of the study may well lead to further work but this would surely involve an entirely new request.