1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Can You Come for a Visit? My ME/CFS Says No
My daughter and son-in-law just had a baby last week. We are thrilled. But we won't be able to see the baby or hold her any time soon. We won't be able to take over little gifts or help out with housework or babysitting.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Nicotinamide, NAD(P)(H), and Methyl-Group Homeostasis

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by adreno, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,334
    Likes:
    1,481
    Tundras of Europa
    I found the following study interesting. It describes how the balance of B3 and methyl groups ultimately determine health status and aging.

    An illustration from the study:
    [​IMG]
    I must admit that I really don't have the knowledge to understand the implications of the article in depth. I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in.

    But as I understand it, both under- or overdosing B3 and methyl groups will lead to serious health problems. The question is, how do we find the right balance? From the full text:

    So what does this tell the many of us who are essentially megadosing on B vitamins and methyl donors? Is it safe at all? Or should we not supplement them? Are the problems related to ratio, dose or both? How would supplementing NAD or NADH change the picture?

    If I seem confused, it's because I am.
  2. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,334
    Likes:
    1,481
    Tundras of Europa
    Here is another study showing that high NNMT activity is linked with Parkinson's:

  3. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,334
    Likes:
    1,481
    Tundras of Europa
    Certainly, B3 deficiency is problematic. This article argues that pellagrins (patients with B3 deficiency) suffer from a myriad of infections, because pathogens apparently supply NAD. PWCs are often found to have multiple infections, and are low in NADPH, which could point in that direction. Oversupplying methyl groups would then further deplete B3. Is this why so many of us feel rotten on high doses of methylcobalamin and methylfolate?

  4. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,334
    Likes:
    1,481
    Tundras of Europa
    This study found that NAD deficiency leads to excess DNA methylation of the BDNF promoter:

    Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD)-regulated DNA methylation alters CCCTC-binding factor (CTCF)/cohesin binding and transcription at the BDNF locus.
    This is obviously not a good thing. Decreased BDNF expression is associated with dementia, depression, bipolar disorder and suicidal behaviour.
    nanonug likes this.
  5. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes:
    238
    I do terribly on high dose MB12 and methylfolates but do very well when taken daily but only in relatively low amounts such as in 3 Thorne's Basic Nutrients (500 and 400 respectively). I have added in about 33 mg B3 and 20 mg B2, 100 mg B2 plus extra minerals like manganese, moly and selenium without any problems at all. Its the high dose MB12 and high dose methylfolates that are the problem my brain doesn't like it at all and sends me completely hyper.

    Pam
  6. learner2life

    learner2life David Pain

    Messages:
    71
    Likes:
    11
    Tijuana-San Jose, Ca
    Hi Adreno,
    My Dad has been reading a book called "Niacin, the real story" which he has been trying to get me to read. From what I read and what he tells me (coming from the book) is that people should be taking 3 gms per day. I do plan on taking it when I feel like I can tolerate a change. It goes into alot of mental disorders, schizophrenia as well as helping people live longer. I really haven't read but only a few pages but it seems very interesting. Just some thoughts.
    David
  7. Lynn_M

    Lynn_M Senior Member

    Messages:
    133
    Likes:
    38
    Western Nebraska
    Niacin eats up methyl groups. It's recommended for people who are experiencing hyper effects from too much methylfolate and/or methylcobalamin.
  8. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,334
    Likes:
    1,481
    Tundras of Europa
    Yes, I believe psychosis and mania have been associated with hypermethylation, so B3 might help in those cases. There is a danger of liver damage though, when taking high doses of niacin. Perhaps a lower dose of regular B3 combined with NAD would work better.
  9. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,334
    Likes:
    1,481
    Tundras of Europa
    Yes, and maybe this is the reason Christine is concerned that methyl supps can deplete B2. Excess methyl groups would deplete NAD, and B2 is needed to synthesize NAD.
  10. place

    place Be Strong!

    Messages:
    284
    Likes:
    56
    US
    I know I am behind the 8 ball but what are the "methyl groups"? Amino Acids, the B's???
  11. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,334
    Likes:
    1,481
    Tundras of Europa
    Methyl groups are the chemicals that methyl donors donate to other compounds. Methyl groups are transferred to other compounds during methylation. It is the "methyl" part of methylcobalamin and methylfolate. Other methyl donors include choline, TMG and SAM-e. All of them donate methyl groups to other compounds.
  12. Lynn_M

    Lynn_M Senior Member

    Messages:
    133
    Likes:
    38
    Western Nebraska
    A methyl group is a carbon with three hydrogens attached.
  13. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes:
    238
    I forgot to say that I have become very well since I was diagnosed with very poor oxygen saturation in my tissues and was advised to breathe oxygen for up to 4 hours daily. In order for me to be very well I have to continue to take physiological doses of steroid so that I am able to tolerate some dessicated thyroid and of course the low dose supplements to aid methylation and essential fatty acids plus lots of antioxidants.

    I would never have believed the energy my body now has. I believe it is an enterovirus that has caused all this damage as per Dr Chia's explanation and so a week ago I started on Equilibrant. Time will tell but meanwhile my life has turned around completely and at 64 that is wonderful.

    Pam

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page