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Nickel & b12

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by forbius, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. forbius

    forbius

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    I've read only one study that suggests Lithium may play a role in b12 transport. I wish it was more deeply researched so I could understand the mechanisms by which it helps. Does anyone know of any other papers I could read? However, I'm satisfied that it does play a role based on personal experience (felt an enabling effect from acute methylcobalamin administration, the effect had diminishing returns until I supplemented lithium upon which it returned to full effect).

    It seems to be a similar situation with nickel. There are some studies (1, 2) suggesting a collaborative role for nickel in folate and/or b12 metabolism. Nickel is a bugger to supplement though. I've been hoping to get some by taking chocamine (a chocolate extract; chocolate is allegedly high in nickel, although I've heard that that's more due to the manufacturing process than a naturally high content?). I'm wondering again if anyone has any insight on nickel's role in this picture, and/or whether a supplement exists for it.
     
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  2. Ninan

    Ninan Senior Member

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    I'm wondering the same thing, @forbius But it seems noone here has researched it? @ahmo ? @Freddd ?

    I had the same experience with lithium as you did and my hair mineral test shows my nickel level is too low to measure. I have been thinking I have nickel allergy earlier since coins itch in my hands and I react to some rings and necklaces. (I also read that nickel allergy and cobalt allergy are related in some way.)

    I need huge amounts of C (5000+ and I tolerate only 200 now) to get my B12/folate working and from what I read here lack of nickel can result in bigger need for C:

    "Some of my patients requiring very large doses of Vitamin C have also taken a small amount of Nickel, which
    has helped reduce Vitamin C requirements considerably, and with it the detrimental effects of higher dosages
    of ascorbic acid on the rest of the system (such as possibly lowering calcium too much)."
    Here is some info about B vitamins and nickel.

    Could it be that extensive use of B12 and other B's depletes nickel, as it seems to do with lithium? But as you say, it seems to be a difficult mineral to get. Nuts and chocolate should provide it but as usual with methylation I guess we could need more than we get from foods. Swallow coins? I found germanium so maybe there is nickel out there too. Question is: Is it good or bad to take it?
     
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  3. Ninan

    Ninan Senior Member

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    There is nickel in some trace mineral complexes such as this one. Can anyone recommend a good one?

    This multivitamin from Pauling contains 2,5 mcgs of nickel sulfate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  4. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    A lot of us have nickel on our DNA ....isn't it a heavy metal?
     
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  5. Ninan

    Ninan Senior Member

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  6. u&iraok

    u&iraok Senior Member

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    I was taking a mineral supplement that I think has nickel in it. I'll find out and let you know. But--

    I think you can just get it from cooking in stainless steel pots!

    Stainless Steel Leaches Nickel and Chromium into Foods During Cooking

    Abstract
    Toxicological studies show that oral doses of nickel and chromium can cause cutaneous adverse reactions such as dermatitis. Additional dietary sources, such as leaching from stainless steel cookware during food preparation, are not well characterized. This study examined stainless steel grades, cooking time, repetitive cooking cycles, and multiple types of tomato sauces for their effects on nickel and chromium leaching. Trials included three types of stainless steels and a stainless steel saucepan; cooking times of 2 to 20 hours, ten consecutive cooking cycles, and four commercial tomato sauces. After a simulated cooking process, samples were analyzed by ICP-MS for Ni and Cr. After six hours of cooking, Ni and Cr concentrations in tomato sauce increased up to 26- and 7-fold respectively, depending on the grade of stainless steel. Longer cooking durations resulted in additional increases in metal leaching, where Ni concentrations increased 34 fold and Cr increased approximately 35 fold from sauces cooked without stainless steel. Cooking with new stainless steel resulted in the largest increases. Metal leaching decreases with sequential cooking cycles and stabilized after the sixth cooking cycle, though significant metal contributions to foods were still observed. The tenth cooking cycle, resulted in an average of 88 μg of Ni and 86 μg of Cr leached per 126 g serving of tomato sauce. Stainless steel cookware can be an overlooked source of nickel and chromium, where the contribution is dependent on stainless steel grade, cooking time, and cookware usage.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4284091/
     
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  7. forbius

    forbius

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    Makes sense that vitamin c would have this effect. I've read a theory that the oxidation of b12 acts as a primitive control over whether the cell favours methylation or transulfuration. That is, high presence of reactive oxygen species means more b12 is oxidized and unavailable for recycling of homocysteine to methionine, causing the stockpiled homocysteine to be converted to cysteine, glutathione and sulphites instead. Favouring this pathway would also increase the release of selenomethionine for the creation of selenoproteins like the glutathione peroxidases. Short version: your bodys natural antioxidant and detoxicant processes are favoured over gene expression during oxidative stress.

    Of course the implications of this are that you're using a crutch and not fixing the fundamental problem of why your body is high ROS in the first place.

    I still get my nickel from chocamine and that seems to satisfy, although I'd really like to know how much nickel I'm exactly getting. I saw some nickel sulphate on a chemistry website that was 99.9% purity, but i'd still be playing with fire to use something that isn't food grade... EU laws forbid nickel as a supplement. I personally would avoid those trace mineral complexes, since there are many minerals which effect isn't accounted for or could be harmful. I am certain that the 'speculative' essential trace minerals nickel, lithium, chromium, vanadium and boron are all essential to life, though.
     
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  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I know nothing about nickel apart from these interesting posts.
     
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  9. u&iraok

    u&iraok Senior Member

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    Here's the one I used: Morningstar Minerals Immune Boost77 Mineral Supplement. I took it for the minerals (which does include nickel) and fulvic acid.

    You CAN'T take it with chlorinated water.

    I was very cautious about trying a trace mineral complex. I had read one person's experience from using one and they said they became very sick from it. I would exercise caution.

    I researched this one and decided it was worth the risk, having enough trust in humus and hoping that it's composition is a natural spectrum of minerals that we would get from the soil or from plants grown in healthy, mineral-rich soil.

    They mine and process the organic plant matter:

    http://www.msminerals.com/WHOWEARE/tabid/56/Default.aspx
     
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  10. Ninan

    Ninan Senior Member

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    So increasing oxidative stress could be the reason methylation doesn't work without increasing amounts of C? When I get it working now (even with small amounts of liver) I lose Zn and C in just a day or two and then it stops working again.

    I guess I'll have to look in to other ways of reducing oxidative stress then.
     
  11. sflorence

    sflorence Senior Member

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    Nickel can be a very slippery slope. Watch out
     
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