A New Decade of ME Research: The 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference 2016
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NICE Guidelines Disclaimer

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by JohnM, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. JohnM

    JohnM Senior Member

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    Just by way of a quick intro ..

    As most on PR will have noted, NICE have undertaken a surveillance review of the guidelines as applied to our disease. Following on from the IiME consultation response to the review, I noted the following:

    "Going forward then any harm coming to patients by these guidelines and from any decision not to update them must be seen to be caused by the NICE Board and SMT and accountability must be taken by those members." (p5)

    This coupled with some comments on other threads asking whether or not guidelines for other health conditions were as appalling as our own. I decided to have a look at the full guidelines for MS (CG186 - Multiple sclerosis, Management of multiple sclerosis in primary and secondary care, last updated Oct 2014).

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I found the following disclaimer statements within the CG186 document:

    and

    When I commented on another thread that UK healthcare is 'byzantine', little did I know. So in light of this, are NICE by extension, able to invoke this same disclaimer? A horrifying thought if so, given all the implications that would entail.

    Just hoping that this is an over-reaction on my part, not wanting to add any undue worries, and seeing things that aren't there.

    Note:
    The National Guideline Centre (NGC) is a multi-disciplinary health services research team funded by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE). We produce evidence based clinical practice guidelines on behalf of NICE. Our guidelines aim to improve the quality of patient care within the NHS in England and Wales.

    Wishing everyone improved health and every happiness. John
     
  2. Demepivo

    Demepivo Dolores Abernathy

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    You do have to love how everybody in the CBT/GET/PACE/NICE industrial complex likes passing the buck :p
     
  3. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes Senior Member

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    So what they are saying is, in essence, it's down to your doctor. If they follow the guidelines and you get worse, it's the doctors fault, and if they don't follow the guidelines and you get worse, it's the doctors fault. So what's the point of NICE?
     
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  4. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    So does this apply down the line to the actual therapists? If so their argument would then just be that they were not administering the therapy correctly and just need extra training.
    So no accountability at all.
     
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  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Disclaiming responsibility doesn't make it so, even legally. If NICE deliberately or negligently misleads doctors in their pursuit of the cheapest way to fob off patients, they are still accountable.
     
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  6. JohnM

    JohnM Senior Member

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    Perhaps to therapists working within an NHS setting, not sure about private clinics?

    Happen that is why they developed a whole new CBT/GET approach just for us, and continue to re-label and tweek their psychosocial therapy of choice.

    Healthcare it ain't, a 'marketing health strategy' it is, and coming to patients with other chronic health issues real soon, if they get their way. :mad:

    Can only agree on your first point, but perhaps I need to change thread of title to clarify the differences between disclaimers for NICE and the NGC(NGCG)? Any thoughts kindly appreciated.

    On your second point, it should be noted that "The work of the NGC (who are responsible for NGCG) is overseen by a governance partnership between the Royal Colleges of General Practitioners, Nursing, Physicians and Surgeons. Each college is represented on the NGC management board, alongside representatives from the Royal College of Physicians Patient and Carer Network, the UK Cochrane Centre, and NHS England."

    So it would seem that it is the 'leaders' of GP's, Nurses, Physicians and Surgeons who are also "deliberately or negligently misleading' their respective healthcare professionals, and seek to avoid any and all responsibility for their actions. As mentioned in another thread .. a very 'Donald Trump' approach to responsibility and accountabilty. :mad:

    Apologies in advance if any further confusion caused, I know this 'byzantine' level of complicity is sure confusing me. :confused:

    Wishing everyone improved health, and every happiness. John
     
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  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Organizations and individuals can't make themselves free of liability, basically. Only the law can do that. So saying "I'm not liable" means absolutely nothing, unless it's backed up by something, such a law that covers the topic, or applicable case law.

    And even then, it's usually open to debate :)
     

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