1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Nitric oxide and its possible implication in ME/CFS (Part 2 of 2)
Andrew Gladman explores the current and historic hypotheses relating to nitric oxide problems in ME/CFS. This second article in a 2-Part series puts nitric oxide under the microscope and explores what it is, what it does and why it is so frequently discussed in the world of ME/CFS....
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Niacin Doubt: Inositol Nicotinate vs Nicotinic Acid

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes:
    137
    Hi,

    I can find these two forms of Niacin available in the market. I don't know which one to take. For some months I have been taking Nicotinic Acid, but I have also read about people taking Inositol Nicotinate. I am really confused. The inositol one is called 'no flush niacin'. On Wiki it says that the Inositol Nicotinate breaks down into Nicotinic acid and Inositol.

    My doubts are:

    1. What is Inositol and what is its use?
    2. Can any of the two forms of Niacin mentioned be taken?
    3. Are the dosages of the two forms equivalent to each other?


    Thanks.
    AFCFS likes this.
  2. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

    Messages:
    441
    Likes:
    210
    Edegem, Belgium
    Why do you want to take niacin?
    It takes away the methyl groups. Only interesting when you overreact to B12 protocol and you want to get rid of bad mood, temper, anxiety, ... fast. It works like a sponge.
    AFCFS likes this.
  3. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

    Messages:
    667
    Likes:
    762
    Canada
    I believe that niacin is involved in mitochondrial energy production, so it gets recommended sometimes because of that role. It's also needed to manufacture NADH, which is key for getting glutathione into cells.

    To my knowledge, inositol is vaguely related to the B vitamins. It seems to help regulate and balance chemicals within the body, so it's seen some use for treating depression and other mood disorders. As I recall, it also seems to be in use for things like diabetic nerve pain, Alzheimer's, etc. Doesn't seem like a bad thing to have around. I take inositol, and it's helped really well with keeping my mood stable through all the ups and downs of this illness.

    I can't comment on equivalency (don't remember off hand), but I believe either form should be fine to take unless you're looking for some kind of reaction aside from the niacin itself. I have had the non-flushing kind recommended to me (though I can't recall now if it was by an ME/CFS specialist, or a naturopath).
    merylg, justy and AFCFS like this.
  4. AFCFS

    AFCFS Senior Member

    Messages:
    312
    Likes:
    243
    NC
    As for the Niacin, I take it as part of ATP Cofactors (A specially formulated high potency vitamins B-2/B-3 combination, containing 100mg of Riboflavin and 500mg of Niacin (as Inositol hexanicotinate) per tablet). The Niacin (as Inositol hexanicotinate) is a non-flushing derivative of niacin. I am re-thinking my Niacin intake even though doc suggested it as part of Iodine Protocol.

    I have not seen any dose comparison between the various sources of Niacin, but maybe other have.

    I started taking inositol (sometimes referred to as Vitamin B8) and choline for liver function, but then found them to have a very positive impact on mood and seemed to enhance cognitive clarity.

    I mention choline here because of this summary for livestrong.com:

    Choline, which is a component of a neurotransmitter, and inositol, which is a form of niacin, are dietary supplements that may encourage brain, cardiovascular and nerve function. In combination, they theoretically convert to acetylcholine -- a compound imperative in transferring electrical synapses through the nervous system, according to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. A choline and inositol combo may also promote a healthy liver. Because of the nature of this product, you should always consult your physician before using, as it is

    Here are some links that may provide some useful info (they may not be the best sources of info, but I was interested to find out why I quickly felt a reduction in brain fog after taking something I thought was for a non alcoholic fatty liver):

    Choline:
    Choline: How much do we need and why is it important?
    Methionine, Inositol & Choline For Kidney Function | LIVESTRONG.COM
    Lipotropic Nutrients On How To Lose Weight Fast
    Does Lecithin Or Choline Help Fatty Liver? | LIVESTRONG.COM
    A Choline-Deficient Diet Exacerbates Fatty Liver but Attenuates Insulin Resistance and Glucose Intolerance in Mice Fed a High-Fat Diet
    Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University
    Choline metabolism provides novel in... [Curr Opin Gastroenterol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI
    Choline, an essential nutrient for humans.

    Inositol
    INOSITOL: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD
    PsychiatryOnline | American Journal of Psychiatry | Double-blind, controlled trial of inositol treatment of depression
    Cases Journal | Full text | Administration of inositol to a patient with bipolar disorder and psoriasis: a case report
    Inositol as an add-on treatment for bipolar d... [Bipolar Disord. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI
    OCD Recovery Center (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder): About Mind/Body Consultant Services & Protocols
    Inositol treatment of obsessive-compulsive d... [Am J Psychiatry. 1996] - PubMed - NCBI
    How to Treat Obsessive Compulsive Disorder With Inositol | eHow.com
    Evolutionary Psychiatry: Inositol - The Nervous System's Pony Express

    What still needs more searching for me, is to determine if taking the Inositol, it is necessary to take any other form of niacin supplement?

    I don't mean to confuse the issue beyond your question, but dealing with supplements is like the toe bone is connected the foot bone idea, and... then to he head bone.
  5. AFCFS

    AFCFS Senior Member

    Messages:
    312
    Likes:
    243
    NC
    Here is a more specific overview of niacin: Vitamin B3 (Niacin) Also listed as: Inositol hexaniacinate; Niacin; Niacinamide; Nicotinamide; Nicotinic acid, although it still does not definitively answer the initial questions presented.

    And Wikipedia's take on Niacine also seem pretty informative, but is not a simple thing. E.g.:

    Inositol hexanicotinate

    One form of dietary supplement is inositol hexanicotinate (IHN), which is inositol that has been esterified with niacin on all six of inositol's alcohol groups. IHN is usually sold as "flush-free" or "no-flush" niacin in units of 250, 500, or 1000 mg/tablets or capsules. It is sold as an over-the-counter formulation, and often is marketed and labeled as niacin, thus misleading consumers into thinking they are getting the active form of the medication. While this form of niacin does not cause the flushing associated with the immediate-release products, the evidence that it has lipid-modifying functions is contradictory, at best. As the clinical trials date from the early 1960s (Dorner, Welsh) or the late 1970s (Ziliotto, Kruse, Agusti), it is difficult to assess them by today's standards.[28] One of the last of those studies affirmed the superiority of inositol and xantinol esters of nicotinic acid for reducing serum free fatty acid,[29] but other studies conducted during the same period found no benefit.[30] Studies explain that this is primarily because "flush-free" preparations do not contain any free nicotinic acid. A more recent placebo-controlled trial was small (n=11/group), but results after three months at 1500 mg/day showed no trend for improvements in total cholesterol, LDL-C, HDL-C or triglycerides.[31] Thus, so far there is not enough evidence to recommend IHN to treat dyslipidemia. Furthermore, the American Heart Association and the National Cholesterol Education Program both take the position that only prescription niacin should be used to treat dyslipidemias, and only under the management of a physician. The reason given is that niacin at effective intakes of 1500–3000 mg/day can also potentially have severe adverse effects. Thus liver function tests to monitor liver enzymes are necessary when taking therapeutic doses of niacin, including alkaline phosphatase (ALP), aspartate transaminase (AST), and alanine transaminase (ALT).
  6. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes:
    137
    Hi Marlène,

    I think there are more uses to Niacin apart from eating away the methyl groups during so called 'overmethylation'. It does calm me down when I take a lot of methyl-b12.So there's that theory working. But it is a B vitamin after all, and it must be involved in the methylation cycle in a major way. If I'm right, it's a precursor to NADP/NADPH, which I've seen a lot in those methylation diagrams, I think in the folate cycle.Also, I think it is involved in BH4,which is essential for neurotransmitters??
    (Anyone do correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge comes from reading here and there in these forums, and I have not verified these facts..)

    The major reason I want to know about Niacin is because the B Complex I take has very low doses of b vitamins and occasionally I try and increase the doses of say B2,B5,B6,B3(Niacin) and check out the effects. So far I have not reached any conclusion,though. I've seen the amounts of B vitamins in the Jarrow B Right and some Thorne formulas and I try to take similar amounts.

    I remember some months back when overmethylation was being discussed and that page on mthfr.net(Dr. Ben Lynch's site) was being shared where Niacin was very useful as it eats the methyl groups. Symptoms were being divided into under and overmethylation and I think Rich also said something about overdriving the methylation cycle.I also read somewhere that Fred does not distinguish between over and undermethylation as the symptoms are very similar, and those symptoms might be resulting from a cofactor deficiency?

    I would like to know Fred's view on the dosage and use of Niacin, and also on the over and under methylation issue.
  7. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes:
    137
    Thanks. I'll experiment with the NF Niacin and check it out. Good to know that inositol has helped you.
  8. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes:
    137
    AFCFS

    Thanks so much for the links! I'll take my time and read through them.
    I've read a lot about choline too, in relation with ALCAR.
  9. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

    Messages:
    441
    Likes:
    210
    Edegem, Belgium
    I'm deficient in niacin but when I take it I feel like dying. As if I'm having bad anesthesia.
  10. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes:
    137
    That's sad to hear. With what amounts does this happen?
  11. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes:
    137
    Coming to another thought,

    As said that Niacin eats the methyl groups, if a person takes large amounts of Niacin, will the methyl groups which are being used be also eaten? Or are only the excess ones which are not being used eaten by Niacin. I think this is the most important question.

    Is a person taking a higher dose of Niacin actually killing away the chances of his Methyl B12 being absorbed?
  12. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

    Messages:
    441
    Likes:
    210
    Edegem, Belgium
    hi arx

    I try only low dose 100 mg of niacine. To avoid to horrible feeling, I take it sometimes at night with a sleeping aid. It won't kill me at these doses, just a bad vagal reflex and a lot of pain.
  13. place

    place Be Strong!

    Messages:
    280
    Likes:
    54
    US
    I took 2000 inositol as requested from a fertility specialist (the best in the US). But it really upset my GI. I really could not tell much of a difference.
  14. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes:
    137
    That's surprising to hear. I never thought niacin could cause pain. I can tolerate 250 mg split into doses in a day quite easily. Although sometimes I get the flush, which is annoying.
  15. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    409
    United States
    Why didn't you mention niacinamide?
  16. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes:
    1,739
    Midwest, USA
    If your low dose B complex contains methylfolate rather than folic acid, please tell me what brand it is.
  17. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    409
    United States
    I'm not sure if you're looking for a low dose b-complex with methylfolate, but this is the one I'm planning to take:
    http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Research-B-Complex-5-60-Veggie-Caps/18132

    It does have a moderate dose of Niacinamide and a relatively high dose of Calcium Pantothenate, but as far as active b vitamins it has a low dose of methylfolate, folinic acid, methylcobalamin, and adenosylcobalamin/dibencozide. Thorne has around 5 different b vitamins each with different dosages so you can pick and choose which one you want. One of them is actually around the same price as this one, but has a somewhat high dose of the active b12's and folates. I'm going low and slow so I'm going to take the one I mentioned above along with extra hydroxocobalamin and ad b12. I'm probably even going to start with 1/3 of the capsule just to be on the safe side. When I took Jarrow's B Right with methyfolate it really messed me up even though I'm assuming it had a low dose. I assume a big part of this was because my B12 was low when I took it. Make sure you get your B12 up before you add methylfolate.
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  18. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes:
    1,739
    Midwest, USA
    I am indeed looking for a low dose b-complex with methylfolate, Thanks. My B12 is up. I can use the extra B5 for adrenal support. I think the methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin will be destroyed in the digestive system, but I am taking them separately in sublingual form.

    The only thing I am not sure about is the folate as calcium folinate. I have no idea what that is or how it is (or isn’t) metabolized.
  19. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,259
    Likes:
    1,370
    Tundras of Europa
    It is folinic acid. Rich recommended it, along with methylfolate. I take the Thorne Basic B complex twice daily (not #5), and am doing fine with it.
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  20. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,259
    Likes:
    1,370
    Tundras of Europa
    Arx, the niacinamide or inositol versions are the best to take, IMO. Pure niacin is used for lowering cholesterol, but can be damaging to the liver. It also causes flushing, which is quite unpleasant.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page