1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS: A disease at war with itself
We can all agree that ME/CFS is a nasty disease, particularly in its severe form, but there are abundant nasty diseases in the world. What is unique and particularly confounding about our disease is that so much controversy surrounds it, and not only surrounds it, but invades it too.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

NHS IAPT Medically Unexplained Symptoms/Functional Symptoms Postive Practice Guide

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Firestormm, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. cmt12

    cmt12

    Messages:
    40
    Likes:
    17
    I have noticed the high achievement personality trait is common but it's just another case of mixing up correlation with causation.
  2. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    647
    Likes:
    1,829
    What a load of psychiarrhea.

    They simply can't admit that human knowledge is limited, and that health problems exist which are not yet understood.

    The idea that somatisation is the cause of health problems is modern superstition. Like any superstition, its purpose is to "explain" what is not understood. And like most superstitions, it evokes metaphysical powers.
    mango, Min, Cheshire and 7 others like this.
  3. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Senior Member

    Messages:
    203
    Likes:
    410
    Scotland
    @Leopardtail and @cmt12. I agree with both of you about the high achievement part. It's the only bit of the model that potentially applies to me: I was far too young to be a high achiever but to this day I'm very hard on myself. I think it's this trait that makes us reject any attempt to label us with a primary depressive disorder. We KNOW that isn't the problem.

    To some extent my personality type was involved but not as they describe. For me, the push came before the crash, i.e. there had been no prior 'acute illness or injury' that I was aware of. I've read so many other people relate a similar experience. I was pretty good at not overdoing it afterwards but at the same time I've never had any of the alleged fear of exercise that they are so fond of citing. If White, Chalder et al. are correct, then I should not be ill. I'm their model patient. Indeed you could almost say I pioneered GET before they did.

    So what I was really getting at was not the personality type but rather how you responded to your predicament. Does the rest of the description apply, as well as the supposed 'predisposition'. I'm trying to get a feel for how commonly this model applies to people.

    Is it rare or is there some truth in it?
  4. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Likes:
    628
    Toronto
    The 'high achievement' type could in fact have a cultural aspect to it.
    At this place in this time certain cultures are increasingly achievement oriented maybe?
    It seems to me that this is not true of all cultures some of whom still value relationships (for example) above achievement.
  5. cmt12

    cmt12

    Messages:
    40
    Likes:
    17
    I mean I'm going to view this through my current understanding, so to me the desire to constantly achieve comes from an insatiable insecurity which results from a continuous stress response. As you become more symptomatic, you feel more insecure so you push yourself harder to achieve which results in more stress. This was true for me, yes, and I've noticed it a lot in others.
  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,267
    Likes:
    5,462
    That's what I often end up thinking with biopsychosocial stuff. Comforting stories that help people avoid acknowledging their own ignorance.

    Personally, I'm not hard on myself over achievements, and while I prefer to do things well to poorly, was generally thought of as being less hard working than most. I think that maybe I've become more 'achievement oriented' recently, on realising how much quackery there is around CFS - if things are this bad, I really can't just sit back and leave it to others to sort out (which would be my natural preference).

    I think that the prejudices around CFS make it harder for people to say 'I'm not that bothered - I just like lazing around' than if they were healthy. When one is sick, there does seem to be more pressure for one to also (pretend to) be virtuous.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  7. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Senior Member

    Messages:
    203
    Likes:
    410
    Scotland
    I think that I follow what you are saying but it doesn't seem to correspond with their argument. You are describing the archetypical vicious cycle, which makes perfect sense; they are proposing an altogether different chain of events.
  8. cmt12

    cmt12

    Messages:
    40
    Likes:
    17
    Yeah I'm saying I think their theory is wrong in that they are proposing a common symptom (type A personality) as a cause.
    Wildcat and Scarecrow like this.
  9. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Senior Member

    Messages:
    203
    Likes:
    410
    Scotland
    It took me a while but I finally understand your points. In the meantime, I managed to repeat some of the same points. Must have sunk in at a subliminal level? Drifting in and out of fog tonight.
  10. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    192
    Likes:
    605
    yes and other psych docs "see" anxious avoidant personalities or just lazy people.

    More likely if you keep looking for problematic personality types you will find them in any group of people. if you keep looking long enough you will see all kinds of pattern emerge. (the psychobabblers do this all day long so they see a lot of patterns we can't see :) )

    There are other explanations why type A personalities could be more common. Many people would just give up and accept their "just depression" diagnosis and keep dying. Others might be more informed willing to question and willing to fight the system.

    In the fifties psychoanalysts believed autism was caused by the "refrigerator mother" (cold distant mother). The reason was that many of the mothers they saw left the child raising to their nannies making the analysts believe the distant mother caused the autistic behaviour of the child. It turned out that they had studied a self selected group and confused correlation with causation. Mostly rich people could afford an analyst back then and many of them had nannies who would look after the child. Poor families had autistic children too, no nannies but they could not afford to see an analyst.

    which describes about 50% of the people living in a highly competitive western society.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  11. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Likes:
    628
    Toronto
    There's also the issue of what came first. For example, I was gregarious then I got ME and I withdrew socially.
    The psychobabblers only acknowledge the present state 'social withdrawal'. They begin their analysis from a faulty premise.
  12. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes:
    611
    England
    PEM is caused by over-exertion, over-exertion worsens ME in general. These peopler have failed to realise that they may see more over-acheivers simnply because that group will worsen the ME they were born with.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page