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Newbie B-12 question

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Sparrowhawk, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    The B-12 pinned thread is into 180 pages, so I apologize in advance if this has been covered:

    My Dr. suggested that if I have found the MTHFR issues via my genetic testing, I should just inject B-12 methylcobalamin (sp?).

    Is that a shortcut through all these supplement strategies (Fredd, Rich VanK)?

    I assume not but can someone explain the variables here that I am missing?

    Thanks.
     
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    You need methylfolate for an MTHFR mutation, not B12. However, you do need B12 to assist the methylfolate in making methyl groups which are needed for methylation. If you also have MTR/MTRR SNPs, gut problems, or pernicious anemia, then you'll need B12 supplementation.

    An injection can be good because it bypasses the stomach where absorption is poor. However, you may not be able to tolerate methylcobalamin itself, or the larger amounts found in injections. That's why people around here use sublingual B12.

    Watch my Methylation Made Easy videos (the first link in my signature). There is an animated version of the methylation cycle which explains things very simply.
     
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  3. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    Couldn't you get it compounded? I remember years ago I got what I think was hydroxycobalamin injections (too long ago for me to remember). Dr. Cheney was saying 10,000 mcg per ml so that's what I got.

    Minks

    Just saw I have MTR and MTRR SNPS so back to my Jarrow MethylB 5000.
     
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  4. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    I can't personally make any recommendation minkeygirl, but are you aware that there's a few folk who believe the Jarrow formula has changed and is no longer as effective as it was? Enzymatic Therapy (which is only 1000) is the only one Freddd recommends as five star now
     
  5. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    I didn't know that Sea. I have a bottle that I've had for awhile (not expired) so i was just going to use those up. Then I can switch to the Enzymatic Therapy.

    Minks
     
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  6. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    I have C677T++ and focussed on mfolate for the first few months. I was having to take it every 3 hours or so in order to keep brain-fog tolerable. I was up to about 4 to 4.5 mg daily at one point. In the end it was mB12 that made the most difference. In terms of ME/CFS, taking injections twice weekly allowed me to return to work but daily injections have given me a life back. I have the TCN2++ which is called "The Frailty Gene" = active transport of B12 into the cells. By loading up, I by-pass this weak transport link and rely upon diffusion. mfolate intake is around 1 mg/day now.
    As soon as I am satisfied that the cobalt ion can not disassociate and lead to some form of toxicity, I will increase the mB12 further. I have some residual brain-fog and my energy drops more than I would like as the day progresses. I am not satisfied that there are not further gains to be had here for me.
     
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  7. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    Sea, is it the Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion?
     
  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Yep, that's the one.
     
  9. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    Thanks! When I run out of my Jarrow I'll get some of those.
     
    Sea likes this.
  10. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Thanks for posting about the Frailty Gene. I will look it up and see what I am, + or -.
    With your c677t, I'm guessing if you had started with the B12 instead of the mfolate, you wouldn't have had as good a response, that you conditioned yourself to be ready for the B12, and then it made the big diff. Just my thought. Nothing really pertinent, just that I think you did the right thing.
     
  11. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    My apologies I was sure I had responded to this kind reply two days ago but I don't see that the message "took" in the system so perhaps I didn't actually post it! Brain on CFIDS...

    Thanks so much for the great videos, they did make sense and helped me understand the dynamic interplay between each cofactor in a more clear way. I'm still too chicken to try to self-navigate this but I have a phone appt with a practitioner who is local here next week who was recommended by two people. Hopefully she can work with me on this...
     
  12. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    I was completely fogged and deep into ME/CFS when I started. I didn't know exactly what I was doing. I began with mfolate 1 mg and mB12 1 mg daily. I had some detox symptoms but this was attenuated by having chelated mercury for 18 months by that point. I was unable to stand and think at the same time. I was sent home from work "incapable". I tested (+) for CCSVI (chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency) which I later found out that almost all of us with ME have.
    After starting my version of the protocol I was able to return to work and am currently "lead hand". It was quite a turn around.
     
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  13. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    That's quite a highly motivating story thanks for taking the time to share it, and congratulations. Just fantastic to hear that. How long were you sick with ME/CFS before you tried the methylation supps?

    If I could ask, also, what chelation protocol did you follow?

    As I was saying to someone else on the board yesterday, I am not sure which string to pull first of these knotty issues. I could do antivirals, or I could address the gut, or methylation, or chelation, or any one of a number of other things that seem to have helped folks here like LDN, GcMAF, etc.... I'm still in research mode.

    But your story definitely puts methylation up in the top of the list!
     
  14. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Sparrowhawk,
    I sympathize with not knowing where to start. Some of the methylation stuff is sublingual (the B12s) but the folates are usually all taken on an empty stomach (folinic acid, methyl folate), so you might do gut before methylation. Do the anti-virals or any of the other things you mention mess up the gut? If there's just one, do it first, then gut. If there are more, you might want to alternate in whatever order you choose, therapy 1, gut repair, therapy 2, gut repair, etc. Just at thought.
     
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  15. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Thanks. Sound advice and much appreciated.
     
    Critterina likes this.
  16. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Just finishing 24 days of antibiotics myself. :hug:
     
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  17. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Yeah, it is hard to know where to start, that's for sure.
    I think that you can attack from more than one direction. If you have methylation problems then as part of basic housekeeping, any mercury fillings need to come out. We need to limit our exposure with toxins - esp mercury and lead which nail methionine synthase and further impair methylation.
    The gut has to be at the top of the list as well. Many of us have numerous food sensitivities and I have huge problems absorbing things = for me it's folate and B2.
    I am 75%+ finished chelation of mercury using Cutler's Protocol as featured on yahoo's FDC site. It centers around ALA which is able to cross the blood-brain-barrier to bring Hg out - otherwise the half-life is 15-20 years or so.
    I had a total collapse after getting my fillings removed in an unsafe manner. I effectively lost thyroid and adrenal function in Jan 2011 and these have never recovered. I quickly slipped into ME/CFS with classic signs of inability to stand, low temperatures which would drop further upon any activity. Post exertion fatigue started the 2nd day following activity and would last 3-4 days. It was incapacitating. My wife was helping me get to my feet.
    I started mB12 in Dec 2011 and my tongue swelled, cracked and became as sore as a tongue is likely to get. I decided methylation was being rejected by my body and stopped. In July 2012, after being sent home from work and the +CCSVI a chap told me the tongue problem was a low B2. I took B2 and started mfolate and mB12 but developed symptoms of deficiency anyway. Long story but in the end I inject the RDA of all B's (accept niacin) and I still take B2 100 mg 3 times daily. Even twice daily and I start to have symptoms of deficiency again. I'll make an entry on the B2 thread in a week or two with more details.
    Anyway, I am not convinced that methylation can be optimized in the presence of mercury and lead. I am also not convinced that the symptoms associated with chelation can be controlled without addressing methylation deficiencies. Both of these problems interfere with gut function which is essential when using natural, nutrient-based therapies. Approaching such complex health issues from more than one front could be justified IMHO.
     
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