I'm afraid that I've been far too busy with other matters for the last week to respond to the comments earlier in this thread about this forum being a 'denialist' forum, and there is far too much there for me to go through and respond to everything now. So all I can do is do my best to sum up the situation as I see it. I'm reluctant to do so really, because this thread seems to be back on topic now, and my post might drag it off topic again, but there were comments made which should be responded to. I don't want to get into a protracted discussion about this though, because the bottom line is that anyone who has concerns about how the forum is moderated, or about members who post here, can only address those concerns by raising those issues with moderators (via 'Report Posts'), and public discussions like the one above serve little or no purpose. Nevertheless, I'll respond to the points made earlier in this thread...
I have to agree that there have been one or two members (and really no more than that) who have in the past been provocative, unreasonable and insulting in the way they've expressed their 'denialist' comments about XMRV. We've moderated a number of such posts recently, and one member has recently been suspended, and in fact the majority of the posts we've moderated were not even reported to us by anybody, we just happened to come across them ourselves. We have done a lot of work behind the scenes to make clear to members who've breached the rules what is and what is not acceptable behaviour here, and we have banned some members for trolling. I'm also quite confident that we have checked out the post history of those members who some see as trolls considerably more carefully than the members who are making those claims have done. There is a lot of work involved there, we do work hard on issues like this, and we deal with them as fairly as we can.
So actually we do deal with trolling and deliberately provocative patterns of posting, but if anybody wants to criticise any failure on our part to deal with particular instances or individuals, and that person has not themselves reported the offending posts to us, then they haven't got a leg to stand on as far as I'm concerned. And there are plenty of people who posted in the discussion above who have criticised the forum in a general way for allowing posts and members they don't like, but who have never reported anything to the moderators. If you don't report posts, it's quite unreasonable and unrealistic to expect that the moderators should scour every thread looking for posts that might offend you. If you have a legitimate complaint, then report it, and we will deal with it fairly.
Having noted that there have indeed been some legitimate concerns there in the past, I must also say that, in general, I don't see any problem with the posts by members who have raised questions about XMRV/HGRV. I don't like to name names, and I don't know who the people complaining about 'denialism' are actually talking about, since they have not reported the incidents they refer to, nor have they privately named to us the people they accuse of trolling (as would be appropriate), nor have they supplied us with any evidence of the alleged trolling behaviour they have mentioned. But I can say that my views and my interest in HGRV science should be fairly well known by now, and I read as much of these threads as time permits, and I have found all those members who are currently posting on this subject to be entirely reasonable, fair, and well-mannered in their posts on this subject (with the exception of one member who has recently been suspended). Contrary to what some members have suggested, I actually think that we have a good standard of polite and respectful debate on this subject here now, with strong opinions on both sides, but expressed in a quite reasonable way. I actually want to thank and praise our members for that - on both sides of the argument.
This is not a place where one side of a debate like this can expect to be favoured. Phoenix Rising aims to be a place where contentious issues can be discussed in a polite and respectful environment, and where different points of view are to be expected. By sticking to the issues and discussing them rationally, it should be possible for the discussions to generate more light than heat, and that is not always the case elsewhere on the internet.
There is one particular aspect of some of the comments about 'denialism' in particular that I want to challenge, and that is the suggestion that people who do not believe in the XMRV/HGRV hypothesis are not themselves ME patients (seemingly, by definition). This theme of seeking to exclude anyone who does not agree with a particular 'politically correct' party line from a particular group, and arguing that because you do not believe x, y or z, you must therefore not have ME, but must be some form of troll or infiltrator, is one of the most pernicious and profoundly damaging concepts that afflicts the online ME community. It pits patients against patients, projects an inaccurate and unreasonable image of patients, mires us all in suspicion and confusion, and fatally undermines the argument of anyone who makes the claim. Resorting to ad hominem arguments such as this is effectively an admission of defeat - and it is most certainly self-defeating.
Due to the wide variety of people with whom I am in contact in my role as moderator, both virtually and in the real world, I happen to know that there is no shortage of patients who are sceptical about XMRV and HGRV. ME is no respecter of political inclinations, and though the biopsychosocial experience of the mistreatment of ME patients tends to be a radicalising one, the disease affects conservatives and radicals alike. Few of those patients who are sceptical about HGRV/XMRV post their views about XMRV here, though there are certainly those who would like to do so and who have been intimidated out of doing so. And the frustration about repeating old arguments, about not being able to convince other people to change their point of view - all of that frustration certainly applies to both sides of this argument. There most certainly are patients who are sceptical about XMRV/HGRV who are feeling just as tired of rehashing old arguments as the supporters of the theory are.
It's also been acknowledged, above, that there is a thread here that's dedicated to constructive discussion of XMRV/HGRV. When we agreed that policy, we stated in that thread that, where necessary, members may post a thread and stipulate that it is intended only for positive contributions on a particular topic. We noted that, in fairness, other members might post a separate thread on the same subject, with different criteria for the discussion. So there is already a mechanism for pro-HGRV members to have a 'private' discussion on this subject, if they feel that would be more productive. I also secured agreement from the board for the principle of future 'micro-sites' within PR, on this issue and perhaps on other subjects in the future. We are still working on the technical infrastructure to provide that facility, and I'm confident we will roll out something of that nature later this year. So we do have some provision for special interest discussions, but I do not think there is much more we could reasonably be expected to do to restrict the more open discussion of XMRV/HGRV issues. If supporters of HGRV/XMRV are concerned about the balance of the general XMRV threads here, they can only address that by posting on them to balance out the views they disagree with; members should not expect that this issue will ever be discussed here in a one-sided way, and I think people just have to accept that is not what this forum is about. Instead, what everyone has a right to expect here is a fair, calm, and rational environment where their right to respectfully express their opinion is respected. As moderators we do our best to live up to that goal.
In the end, though, this whole discussion about this forum being 'denialist' about XMRV/HGRV is really rather pointless. My personal views on the subject should be quite easy for anyone to see, and I'm in charge of moderation now, so if anyone accuses us of a bias against XMRV/HGRV then I am bound to question that claim. I do try to moderate here as fairly as I possibly can, based on the evidence available to me, and I'm grateful to Bob for his kind words earlier about the job I do. And I would add that I have absolute confidence in the rest of my new team to do a better job of it than I can myself, and I believe we have an excellent and very hard-working team of moderators here now.
So to those who have concerns about the moderation here, or about certain posts, or about certain members, the bottom line is that there is not much value in complaining about that within forum threads. Instead, report your evidence to the moderators, and make your case via reported posts, and we will deal with those reports as fairly as we can. But please don't expect that we will ban members for rejecting the XMRV/HGRV theory because, like the majority of PR members, I want to be a member of a forum where diverse opinions and arguments can be respectfully expressed, and where an honest and intelligent debate can shed light on the many issues of concern to us all. So if you have specific concerns, then please report them and supply evidence in support of your concerns; I really don't see what I can do to deal with vague and general complaints like those above.
