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New Times article on NICE (mostly good)

Yogi

Senior Member
Messages
1,132

arewenearlythereyet

Senior Member
Messages
1,478
It might help you understand the controversy about CFS if you realise that ME was a properly defined disease that was originally described in epidemics but then was seen as occurring sporadically as well. There was an ignorant grab by psychologists but many researchers were showing how wrong that was. It was an exciting time with a lot of interest in research and money was available. Then suddenly there was AIDS and all the money disappeared. We had a patient organisation, local groups and a common set of symptoms; we all knew what we were talking about.

Then, suddenly there was an epidemic in the US, the CDC renamed the disease CFS and, in the UK, a group of psychiatrists I had never heard of redefined the illness as CFS but not the CDC version!!!

It was like a military coup.

CFS did not describe the illness at Tahoe and it did not describe ME, it was invented for political reasons. It is not like rheumatoid arthritis or Lupus, something that was developed by examining patients and finding commonality.

I still feel anger that the American researchers let it happen and ignored the years of work done in the UK. ME was epidemic and associated with polio for goodness sake, not fatigue at all. It has taken about twenty five years for the fact that exercise intolerance is the main feature to be acknowledged in the US but we knew that in 1959.

Many people who have been told they have CFS actually have ME, but that is more luck than judgement in most cases. You may equally have Behcets disease, coeliac disease, lupus, fibromyalgia, even one poor woman who had mad cow disease. You could be suffering a post viral syndrome or just be working too hard, overtraining as an athlete, the list goes on.

CFS is NOT a disease, it is a dustbin diagnosis for when doctors don't want to do proper testing to find out what is wrong.

That does not mean that someone who has been told they have CFS is not ill. Simply being tired all the time, the least you can have and be diagnosed, is horrible. The BPS brigade have thrived on the misleading construct CFS. It lets them confuse the issue and they want to dump all diseases of unknown origin into a single category of MUPS.

If you have been diagnosed with CFS, I and I think most of us, feel you have been let down by the medical system and it would be good if you did not have ME since, as defined by Ramsay "it has an alarming propensity to become chronic". Much better if you have something that will resolve and we will not hold that against you. We have had some good advocates who were initially misdiagnosed.

But I can recognise my illness in the description of 1959 whereas I have never experienced 6 months of fatigue so never met any of the definitions of CFS therefore I have ME.
yes..I am aware of all those things...I don't think my understanding is faulty

My opinion still remains that arguing over the name is pretty pointless until the point can be argued with facts around an accurate diagnosis based on a scientific understanding of the disease rather than rather biased assumptions.

We don't have that at the moment, and we didn't have it in 1959. In the meantime I think its in everyone's interest to band together until bio markers are established. May be you are right, but I suspect the infectious route is not the only path that leads to this disease and this view has nothing to do with perceived politics over the name.

Hopefully we will see soon?
 

Sean

Senior Member
Messages
7,378
If you have been diagnosed with CFS, I and I think most of us, feel you have been let down by the medical system and it would be good if you did not have ME since, as defined by Ramsay "it has an alarming propensity to become chronic". Much better if you have something that will resolve and we will not hold that against you. We have had some good advocates who were initially misdiagnosed.

But I can recognise my illness in the description of 1959 whereas I have never experienced 6 months of fatigue so never met any of the definitions of CFS therefore I have ME.
Ramsay's criteria are particularly parsimonous and insightful, especially given the almost non-existent scientific and laboratory evidence available at the time. Ramsay gave a master class in the art of medicine.

Yet it was McEvedy & Beard's shabby psychobabble paper that won the day and opened the door for the likes of Wessely to grab control.

Good to see people thanking journalist who has done his research and not just repeating spoon fed SMC lines.
Particularly one who has been prepared to change their mind. People who do this have earned some respect, are no longer the enemy, and could even be allies.

Most people don't like being misled by those in authority and used to help cover up abuse and malfeasance, and people who find out they have been so used are likely to be keen to correct the record.
 

Mithriel

Senior Member
Messages
690
Location
Scotland
Yes, McEvedy & Beard who came to ME fresh from their triumph diagnosing mass hysteria in some girl's schools because everyone knew for a fact that vomiting bugs could only be spread by faecal - oral pathways. Let's all say Norovirus!

But that was thoroughly debunked even if it had not completely died out among the ignorant and misogynous. Good new work was being done by the likes of Eleanor Bell and the Behans in Glasgow and Darrel Ho Yen in Dundee.

When the CDC made their definition of CFS they conveniently left out that they had only come to Lake Tahoe because of an EPIDEMIC. The businesses in the town were horrified that tourists would not come to a resort if there was an epidemic there. I read that the patients began to be shunned by the townspeople as their livelihoods were threatened.

So it was a political definition from the start. If they had admitted that it was a disease that came in epidemics then there is no way it could be an exercise phobia. A barracks full of soldiers (as happened in Switzerland) do not suddenly all became scared of exercise.

I think that many people who feel they had a gradual start actually became ill suddenly - developed a broken aerobic system - by a subclinical infection and that they did not get life limiting symptoms until what they did outran what their broken systems could deal with.