Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
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New Smart Meter

Discussion in 'Hypersensitivity and Intolerance' started by Womble, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Womble

    Womble Senior Member

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    Our electric company wants to replace our Smart Meter.

    I'm not sure what our current model is, but it is several years old.

    I am concerned that the newer models have more powerful signals that could potentially make me very sick.

    Do you know if there is any difference between the older and newer models?

    Does anyone have any advice on how I should best handle this situation?

    Thank you,
    Womble
     
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  2. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I am aware of only one good explanation for electromagnetic intolerance, and that is based on voltage gated ion channels. If you turn out to be sensitive you may only have two options that I am aware of. Move ... often impractical. You can also use a metallic mesh to block the signal. That can also be impractical. I hope someone can give you a better answer, but you might not react to the new meter at all.
     
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  3. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Can't you ask the people who want to install it to give you the information?
     
  4. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    the city installs ours and we opted out and use the old way, they give you the option to do that where I live. given tho that it is the city I doubt they would provide info saying it is not a good idea, otherwise that creates liability. but if you research around you can find some credible scientists who have spoken out against it. I do sort of wonder tho, given the expanse of internet wifi etc that its going to be easy to live in the city and complete avoid this sort of thing...........
     
  5. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Very interesting @alex3619
    I just had a quick look at this. EMF can activate voltage gated calcium channels in susceptible people and there is suggestion that taking a calcium channel blocker can help alleviate symptoms.
    http://www.nature.com/articles/srep21774
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/
     
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  6. MastBCrazy

    MastBCrazy

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    I'm electrohypersensitive (bias disclosed). I'd be hard pressed to think of a place to move to where you can avoid RF (high frequency) exposure.
    @kangaSue, the first Nature article refers to low frequency (such as power lines, but different than smart meters) and fairly high strength, 1mT, power lines (e.g. close to high voltage distribution over 115,000 Volt).

    Your likely best options @Womble :
    1) As @xrayspex suggests: find out if you can opt out, and do if possible. Your neighbours may get one, but field strength decreases with square of the distance.

    2) If you are ok with cellphones, bluetooth and WiFi, you may not notice a problem with the smart meter. There are WiFi standards up to 60GHz though (802.11ah). Strength changes with frequency and distance from source ("Free Space Path Loss" changes by the square of each, to twice as far should be a quarter the - that is why the constant move to higher frequencies...). So, the higher strength due to higher frequency could potentially give you problems where you didn't with older 2.4GHz wifi.

    3) Shield as suggested by @alex3619. The metal reflects the RF waves. If the meter is on a flat wall that can be a fairly straight forward solution. Sorry, too brain fogged to get into the details.

    I have used RF (microwave) absorbing material (a special carbon fiber sheet with fire/dust suppressing covering on each side) - while easy to implement, it is quite costly.

    Some symptoms of electrohypersensitivity overlap with ME/CFS. Personally, I think that none of the physiological effects are helpful for the issues that ME/CFS folks already deal with, so reducing or controlling unnecessary exposure seems prudent.
     
  7. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Why would they not give the brand and model information?
     
  8. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    Ah, sorry, I misinterpreted what you meant. Yes I would imagine they would give the objective data of model etc I thought you meant to ask them their thoughts on whether it might make them sick :)
     
  9. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    Smart meters were installed here where I live a few years ago and I haven't heard of anyone having any problems with them healthwise.
     
  10. Womble

    Womble Senior Member

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    Thanks, MastBCrazy, I might try shielding if I get sick from it.

    Hopefully I can stop them from installing a new one, or get more information about the new model.

    Just for people's info:

    http://emfsafetynetwork.org/smart-meters/
     
  11. Chris

    Chris Senior Member

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    This topic fascinates me, since I believe that it was the trigger for my own ME. First, a few more refs:

    Martha Herbert, a pediatric neurologist specializing in ASD, and Cindy Sage, combined forces to produce a major two part paper on the possible relationships between ASD and RF: first published in BioInitiative 2012, it was then published separately:

    http://www.marthaherbert.org/librar...PlausibilityPathophysiologicalLink-Part11.pdf

    Note that they use the word “plausibility”–as far as they were then aware, the research had not been done. We are all familiar with the notion that we and ASD share many pathways–I think if you read through these two papers you will be impressed by the familiarity of many of the pathways.

    There are also a couple of papers from Paul Héroux and colleagues at McGill that describe a related or identical pathway, though they are not listed in the biblio provided by either:

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=104594719619502&story_fbid=67706597570570

    I moved from Montreal to Victoria BC in August 2006; for the first few months I was my usual very active, mobile person, walking and cycling all over the place. Then trouble began, though not with the more usual sudden flu-like illness, but with waves of increasing apparent cardiac symptoms--a mild brief episode in December 2006, then a harder hit late January, which stayed, and gave me an awful few months, in which cardiologists denied any faults. Somehow, without knowing what I was doing, I paced myself into something like health again that summer, only to succumb permanently early 2008. I had moved into a high-rise apartment building topped by a forest of cell and other antennae. I rented a Stetzer meter, and found sky-high HF pollution on my power lines; I later bought a meter, and found quite high levels all round the building. I moved a while later, and am now in a quieter (electrically and acoustically) part of town, but have by no means recovered. I wrote brief emails to both Julia Newton and Leonard Jason suggesting this was something worth exploring--got courteous but brief replies from both, but with no suggestion that they might look into this. I am convinced this is real, though also sure it is not by any means the whole or sole answer.

    I did from another angle make a brief recent trial of a calcium channel blocker--Nidefipine--which was a disaster--it triggered both high HR and a return after several years of unwelcome Premature Ventricular Contractions; I don't mean to suggest that maybe another drug from the same family might not help some, and would love to hear about any experiments you may make.
     
  12. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    Looking thru documentaries at Amazon right now I see there is an award winning film from 2013 callled "Take back your power" about the risks of smart meters.....I haven't watched it yet.....
     
  13. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member

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    It obviously depends on where you live, but in some states in Australia you have the option to refuse if your electricity company wants to install a smart meter.
     
  14. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    I know of a few people who have a strong reaction to calcium channel blockers and have also tested positive to voltage gated calcium channel antibodies. It seems to be that this is not an unusual occurrence in some with ME/CFS
     
  15. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    My condo building switched to smart meters a few years ago. It happens that the electric room is located right in front of my entry way. There must be a dozen of them in that electric box.

    I never noticed a difference. I have lived here for over 10 years.
     
  16. Molly98

    Molly98 Senior Member

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    I don't have experience of smart meters but I do suffer hugely with electrohypersensitivity. We have had to get rid of microwave, can not have wifi on or mobile phone signals at home or even cordless phones. When I am bad my symptoms will get worse when my lap top is plugged into the mains and some relief when not. We have had to change the cooker from electric to gas because I would suffer every time the oven was on for more than a few minutes. Luckily I live in the countryside but I can not spend long at all in an environment with lots of electric, wifi, mobile phone signals etc it literally feels like my brain is inflamed and frazzled, I can't think, I can't get my words out properly, my speech becomes slurred and muddled, I will feel weak and tremulous and get awful migraine and the effects will take at least 24 hours before they start to wear off.

    I think I was born at the wrong time my body is not suited to 21st-century technology :(
     
  17. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    Is someone aware of a possible link between finding voltage gated calcium channel antibodies and electromagnetic hypersensitivity ?
    About 10 years after onset of ME, I began to suffer from electrosensitivity. It is a nightmare living in town, but in the tiny country I am living in, there is no safe place. And smart meters will be installed in all the country untill end of 2017.

    I am afraid to try a calcium channel blocker like you @Chris because of MCS, but I would like to find a solution in order to be able to live the country in case I react badly to smart meters (I havn't been able to approach airport, nor use a boat because of RF for 9 years).
     
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  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I found supplementation with magnesium oxide greatly diminished my sensitivity. I can become sensitive to it again with hormonal oscillations (thyroid, estrogen).

    This subject has recently been approached here with references.
     
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  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  20. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Voltage gated calcium channel (VGCC) antibodies already reduce calcium influx into the cells so you don't want to take a calcium channel blocker if you have these antibodies.

    VGCC Ab's are implicated in LEMS (Lambert Eatons Myasthenic Syndrome) which has some symptom similarity to ME/CFS so something worth testing to eliminate as a possible factor anyway.
     
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