1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
New Exercise Study Brings Both Illumination and Questions
Simon McGrath looks at new objective evidence of abnormal response to exercise in ME/CFS patients, and the questions that researchers are still trying to answer ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

New Protozoa: Possible Cause of ME/CFS. An Interview with Dr.Steven Fry.

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Gamboa, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. Gamboa

    Gamboa Senior Member

    Messages:
    193
    Likes:
    152
    Canada
    This apparently isn't new information since Dr. Steven Fry has been working on this for years. This is an interview of Dr. Fry with Dr. Marc Braman. Does anyone here know any more about this? It sounds quite promising.

    http://www.iadvocatehealth.org/protozoal_infection0.aspx#.aspx

    Dr. Fry claims to have discovered a new form of protozoa in patients with ME/CFS, MS, Lou Gerigs Disease and many other autoimmune illnesses.
    CJB, merylg, Wayne and 2 others like this.
  2. Gamboa

    Gamboa Senior Member

    Messages:
    193
    Likes:
    152
    Canada
    I just looked up Dr. Fry. This is a blurb about him from his website.

    "Stephen E. Fry, M.D. has been practicing primary care for 20 years in North Scottsdale, Arizona. During that time he has founded a clinical research laboratory, Fry Laboratories, LLC. In addition to the laboratory, Dr. Fry has a 501(c)(3) Non-Profit foundation, The Southwest Center for Chronic Disease, which is dedicated to the research of chronic disease and infection. Dr. Fry holds three degrees from the University of Arizona, Bachelors of Science in Microbiology, Masters of Science in Molecular Biology, and an M.D. from the University of Arizona College of Medicine. He received his postgraduate medical training at Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center and St. Josephs Hospital. Additionally, he is a recipient of the Clara Oliver Springer Cancer Scholarship. The Southwest Center for Chronic Disease recently received a grant from the Wallace Coulter Foundation for its work in diagnostics. Stephen E. Fry, M.D. is a member of the American Medical Association, American Society of Microbiology, and the International Lyme and Associated Disease Society.
    Dr. Stephen E. Fry speaks nationally on vector-borne diseases, biofilms, and the novel protozoan: Protomyxzoa rheumatica. His main professional interest has been the cause and treatment of chronic inflammatory disease such as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) and Fibromyalgia. He is licensed to practice in Arizona and California. He is also a certified FAA medical examiner."
    taniaaust1, merylg and Enid like this.
  3. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,410
    Likes:
    2,175
    U.K
    Hey Gamboa - a really very interesting and informative interview. He certainly seems to know what he is talking about. It got me thinking about the thread on the Terry Whals diet for MS - very plant based diet and low fats.

    I like his thinking on the autoimmune diseases (and he includes fibro and M.E) being a kind of continuum, with a possible single main cause leading to inflammatory chronic disease.

    Sian recovery has a thread on Dr Fry and her treatment with him for this biofilm here:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...after-being-diagnosed-with-protomyxzoa.15002/

    One of the things i DO like about this is that it wouldnt be expensive or too hard to try the diet and convince a doctor to prescribe the antibiotics. Plaquenil is probably another matter though. But he feesl people are having improvements on diet /antibiotics and heat treatments alone.

    What i DON'T like is tht he considers it a lifelong infection. I don't know what he does to treat patients long term as i imagine a very low fat diet could be problematic over long periods as would antibiotics and not taking magnesium. (it clears up my restless leg, but i understand what he says about it)

    All the best, Justy.
    merylg and Wayne like this.
  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,133
    Likes:
    5,002
    If this were true and replicable, it would be massive news and get him published in the biggest journals around. My guess would be that this is not going to happen. Personally, I'd hold out on paying for any test/treatments until this work gets properly published and assessed.
  5. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes:
    1,249
    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi Gamboa,

    Thanks much for posting this -- very interesting. I suspect any number of protozoa, perhaps including Lyme and/or Lyme co-infections could cause similar disruption in blood flow to and from the brain. Here's a short segment from the article/interview that stood out for me:
    snowathlete, Enid and justy like this.
  6. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,410
    Likes:
    2,175
    U.K
    Hi Esther, did you read the interview with Dr Fry - he talks about getting the work published and about research they have done. It seems that this is quite groundbreaking stuff and could take sometime to come to fruition - like many other major discoveries, such as H pylori causing ulcers. They have sequenced the entire genome of this protozoa/helminth/biofilm type thing - it is consideredcompletely new - in a class of its own, but similar to malaria.
    I would like to find out more about his research and how it is coming along.

    All the best, Justy.
    merylg likes this.
  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes:
    840
    UK
    Thanks Gamboa - very interesting. Just wondering whether the "high spots" (and other descriptions) reported findings from MRI brain scans (me too) are indeed vascular insufficiencies. MS and demyelisation both suspect for me at one time but nothing conclusive from my Neurologist. A new form of protozoa could be stunning.
  8. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,133
    Likes:
    5,002
    It would be a massive breakthrough... the scale of the claim left me feeling sceptical. Especially as we've not heard of it being published in a major journal, and instead we're now hearing these claims in an interview on a website.

    I'm left feeling pretty sceptical about it. This is from a position of ignorance though, and I'm not claiming any expertise in this area, although as nothing's been published, I guess that we're all in a position of ignorance here!

    What are the chances of a breakthrough in all those conditions coming from one lab, but nothing on it having yet been published? Too good to be true imo.
    Ai-Yai likes this.
  9. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes:
    80
    It could be a massive breakthrough. It's certainly consistent with my massive response to antiparasitic meds.
    Let's not forget that certain parasites can colonise critical parts of the human including the brain, bone marrow cells, white blood cells, liver cells, spleen etc. filling you with eggs, larvaes, cysts ...
  10. Ai-Yai

    Ai-Yai Mad Genius

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    4
    Mom
    According to modern data and clinical stastics gathered during last 10 years, H.Pylori is pretty controversial as causative agent of ucler.
    Morover, the supposition exist that it might be a symbiotic one rather than pathogenic.
    Time will answer this question for sure.... hope soon.
    merylg likes this.
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes:
    1,249
    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi Baccarat,

    You might find this website interesting, if you haven't already run across it:

    Lymephotos.com

    This website was created by a Lyme suffererer who had been ill for 13 years. He believes he discovered that Lyme bacteria is generally accompanied by an infestation of microfiliarial worms, which he has photographed. Pretty sobering stuff to consider.

    Wayne
  12. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

    Messages:
    580
    Likes:
    199
    Ontario
    Well, you make a good point Esther12 about it not being replicated. But it is important to remember these studies cost money, a LOT of money and where is it going to come from ? It's not so easy to just whip up a replicating study. I remember Jill James, who studies methylation in autism talking about just how extremely difficult it is to do studies. Having said all that, I would certainly like to see more success stories using his protocal.
    justy likes this.
  13. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,133
    Likes:
    5,002
    Hi Globalpilot - I meant 'replicable' as in able to provide meaningful results for a number of samples in a study, rather than a random one-off finding. As we've l not had an initial study published yet, we're certainly a long way from anything being replicated by other groups. At this point, it could just be someone making claims on the internet in order to get customers, and as the claims seem so significant and dramatic, I'm doubtful that they'd first be reported in an interview on a little website if there was good evidence to support them.

    I could be wrong, but I don't have a good feeling about this.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  14. JT1024

    JT1024 Senior Member

    Messages:
    534
    Likes:
    286
    Massachusetts
    I just searched Scirus and Mednar for Protomyxzoa rheumatica, the protozoan "of interest" and neither search provided substantial hits.

    I'm not getting a great feeling on this either. Could be wrong though.
  15. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes:
    1,236
    Tundras of Europa
    The problem with these kind of claims, is that they cannot be falsified. Fry suggests that there is a pathogen causing ME and autoimmune illnesses, which there is no definitive test for, no way of eradicating, and really only speculation that it causes said illnesses. Is it possible that Fry is right? Yes, in the sense that anything that can't be disproved is possible. Is it likely? No.
    svetoslav80 and vitamink like this.
  16. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,410
    Likes:
    2,175
    U.K
    I have no doubt that Fry has proven that the infection exists. But i do agree that the extent of its implication in autoimmune diseases is not proven as yet - especially in the wide ranging way he suggests. But i think this is exactly the point that is tripping him up in respect of publishing his work. These diseases - MS, ALS, Diabetes etc are considered simialr but different diseases - he is suggesting they could all be caused by a vascular issue caused by the infection creating biofilms throughout the blood supply and this could also be the cause of coronory disease. I suppose it does sound a stretch, but i imagine as he has 3 degrees in this area he knows more about it than i do.

    AI - yes the work on H Pylori has been contentious but is now accepted to be the cause of ulcers and main cause of gastritis - i guess thats why Marshall and Warren were awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine or Physiology in 2005 (less than 10 years ago)

    All the best, Justy.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  17. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

    Messages:
    696
    Likes:
    400
    Manchester UK
    I am in treatment with Dr Fry. Whatever else he is, whether he proves to be right or wrong, he is a true believer, and not a money making machine. I have no problem accepting that the current paradigm in medcine could suppress or more likely ignore his findings. His lab methods seem pretty good to my limited understanding. If I choose to follow his protocol for a while to see if it helps, I dont think I proving particularly credulous - I continue to bring an open and sceptical mind to the process.
    katim likes this.
  18. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes:
    1,236
    Tundras of Europa
    While it is comforting that he is not a money grabber, in my opinion we need more healthy scepticism, and less "true believing" in our line of research. It seems to cloud all objective thinking.
    svetoslav80 likes this.
  19. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes:
    80
    Hi Wayne,

    yes thanks, I saw that website when I was into Lyme and it makes all sense from my point of view.
    Dr AW in the UK was finding strange "objects" in the blood of people with CFS.

    He found a worm in my blood years ago and had some treatment for that.
    But I'm not sure the blood is where we should be looking for these infections.
  20. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes:
    80
    I really don't understand some of the arguments against Dr Fry.
    If a pathogen is found in your body, whether it's the cause of your ME or not, what do you do?
    Exercise you healthy scepticism and wait for studies to replicate the findings? Take a view, as some ID specialists do, that such creatures are probably harmless? or have a go and treat it?
    It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.
    pamb, merylg, Lou and 4 others like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page