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New protocol (horowitz)

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by acrosstheveil, Dec 19, 2014.

  1. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    I read (well skimmed) the lyme book by Dr. Horowitz. I wanted to try an extensive protocol which included 6 antibiotics so I saw my very busy doctor today. He is not a LLMD but is very open-minded. He gave me the go ahead to do the protocol!

    Most doctors would just shake their head and say no way when I give them a list of 6 antibiotics and the dosages I want to be on but he trusts my judgment. He even wanted to borrow the book so he could read the whole thing over the holidays which is awesome. He is on his way to becoming a LLMD without even realizing it. (and he takes insurance!).

    The only thing I am disappointed about is the pain. He didn't want to give me anything effective for it because he is worried about the DEA. :mad: Anyways, he gave me the go ahead to see a pain specialist so there is still hope.

    This is probably the first time I've ever been happy with a new doctor in over ten years.

    So here's the protocol for anyone interested (this covers bartonella, babesia, borrellia, mycoplasma, and ehrlichia and probably others...):

    Mepron (this is for babesia) - 750mg PO, BID
    Zithromax - 250 mg PO, BID
    Nystatin - 500,000u, 2 PO, BID
    Rifampin - 300mg PO, BID
    Plaquenil - 200mg PO, BID
    Minocycline (doxycycline is preferred but I am allergic. but this also penetrates the blood-brain-barrier more effectively) - 100mg PO, BID

    I also bought a bunch of tinctures including cryptolepsis, sida acuta, alchornea, andrographis, houttuynia, boneset, red root, and teasel. They hit me crazy strong so I'm not really taking them yet until kill some more of these pathogens. Also, with how many drops I'm taking its equal to about a shot of liquor a day. :nervous:

    I'm also taking resveratrol from japanese knotweed, cordyceps, and many other things. I've had this for over 8 years and I'm sick of being sick. Hope this works.
     
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  2. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    taniaaust1 and acrosstheveil like this.
  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    That ought to cover it! I wouldn't start them all at once though I'm sure you know that...

    Also, azithromycin has a really long half life so you would be fine to take 500 mg once a day.

    Make sure to get your eyes checked every 6 months while on Plaquenil as well just in case.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
    maryb likes this.
  4. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    acrosstheveil, why would you eat abx for all those tbd's? Have you tested positive for each of them?
     
  5. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    i've been dealing with this for over 8 years so that is why i decided to get on antibiotics again. and yes, i have tested positive for them when I was seeing a LLMD. Yea, I'll keep an eye on the plaquenil. I know it's the dangerous one.

    Thanks
     
  6. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    drob, good thinking. I actually am taking regular turmeric as well as liposomal curcumin with resveratrol. I'm trying to cover all my bases!
     
  7. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    You might not need all those antibiotics if you are already using all those potent anti microbials. At least try upping full doses with all the herbs before jumping on mega doses of antibiotics. There are a lot of side effects you can run into with all the antibiotics and nystatin can destroy your liver. This is one recent study as an example for things to watch with long term pharm grade antibiotics.

    http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/5/192/192ra85
     
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  8. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    as of right now, i'm allergic to the tinctures... so i'm just using antibiotics for now. but it seems all my insane allergies are related to my infection so I am hoping that as the antibiotics start working my allergies/intolerances will start to fade and I can actually use them. I could feel the tinctures killing the bugs but also had my typical allergic reaction which includes chest pain and trouble catching my breath without actual lung constriction (air hunger?). also get very cold and nothing can keep me warm but a hot shower when it happens.
     
  9. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    thanks martial for the link. NAC seems like a great supplement but i can't tolerate things with sulfur.
     
  10. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Oh I see I was the opposite, very allergic to penicillin but don't have issues with the herbs. Hopefully things clear up for you soon then! Yeah I am not a fan of NAC myself just thought the study was important to be aware of, just stay away from the quinoline class antibiotics.
     
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  11. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    I also have developed allergy problems, and KDM says this is due to the immune system being already ramped up by the infections and then the body becomes sensitive to all sorts of things. I have problems with some herbs making me itch and Doxy - but I am going to have a test to make sure about the doxy in the new year plus testing 4 other abx with a skin prick test (the doxy is a challenge test).

    Good luck with it all - do you have something to protect your gut in all that? probiotics? Kefir? etc
     
  12. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    Wish you a lot of success with your new protocol.

    As you are dealing with Lyme and Co for years, I am sure you already know that it may be better to introduce one thing at a time, in order to identfy an eventual "offender" without cancelling all the other stuff you already tolerate.

    Beating all the bugs all at once may be a very hard task. For example, some LLMD prefer to address Babesia first and then turn to the Borrelia treatment.

    I hope that you have found some good way to detoxify. It is really critical. Please keep us informed about your progress :)

    ,And that's really great your GP is ready to go with you on this road!
     
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  13. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    thanks, yea I understand that my overactive immune system is the reason for all my intolerances. I always have the worse days on the days I work. So many things I'm exposed to.

    Having chest pains again as usual and very lethargic. took some of my scarce remaining painkillers and starting to feel a tiny bit better but still pretty bad. I'm insanely thirsty today. I've already drank probably 80 oz. of water today and I am still very thirsty. I read of people experiencing this with mepron. also, the rifampin is clearly changing the color of my urine. i guess thats why they say it will on the pill bottle.
     
  14. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    i have some probiotics but i figure i need to order some more and take higher dosages while i do this. i figure before bedtime i will make a megadose every night. or sometime during the day between the two antibiotics doses.
     
  15. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    no signs of any dieoff yet...at least no crazy side effects from all the antibiotics.
     
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  16. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    @acrosstheveil, you and I are pretty much on the same track. I'm greatly encouraged by what I've learned from recent trials with these meds, and I hope you have a similarly positive experience. However it's now clear to me that things need to be in their right place for one to be successful.

    I've done extremely well addressing babesia first. I've enjoyed immediate benefits just from taking cryptolepis. Though if I'm eating carbs I don't feel any difference. If I had mepron and such this might be a different situation, but I can't get anywhere with this bug while still eating carbs/sugar with only the herbs. I see babesia as a surface bug. It can really mess up the brain and thwart other attempts at improving my health, but with the bug subdued I'm energetically able to do so many other treatments. I think it's a great one to start with. Also if f you've identified your babesia species and it's duncani, you should know that this one is a bitch to eradicate; as in you'll have to pummel it for a good year and there are still no guarantees. Horowitz talks about maintaining his patients on low-dose malarone to keep them symptom free.

    "no signs of any dieoff yet...at least no crazy side effects from all the antibiotics."

    Be very careful with this. I was taking full doses of doxycycline, rifampin, metronidazole, as well as several herbs for aver a month, and I couldn't figure out why I wasn't herxing. Then I brought in the red root... and holy shit! I'm not a wimp but I was very close to going to the hospital. If your body is totally toxic and your lymphatic system backed up, your immune system won't kill the bugs! I think I recall reading about this. You might be able to stop their proliferation and activity, like I did with the babesia, but reducing the numbers of bugs that pollute the body when they die, I don't think so. This toxicity may also be the reason we develop the sensitivities. Become a detox master, that's what I'm focused on. I had to drop all the ABX except my babesia herbs just to get on top of things and start cleaning myself out. A splitting headache and a puke bucket was how I went to bed last week. I assume you're not taking the red root due to sensitivity problems. Figure a way to get that one into your system, even if you have to take it dry, though Buhner does say it's the one herb you want to take as a tincture. I'd suggest you consider coming off all those killers until you've done this. The idea is to find a killing regime you can stick with over the long haul. Going fast and making yourself feel really unwell is counterproductive. I hear that from all the successful and experienced Lymies. And I think you're on way too much to not have any herx.

    I'm sensitive to everything I put into my body in any real quantity. I've to rotate everything except medicines. And I, too, had sensitivity problems with the tinctures. I solved this by placing the drops in an empty capsule and swallowing them right before meals. Works like a charm. You might want to try this. Your mouth and throat are far more sensitive than your gut.

    Happy hunting. Keep us posted.

    P.S: That red root, backed up lymphatic thing is something more people have to understand. I can't imagine how many allopathic doctors put Lymies on ABX and get no results. I wonder if this wasn't the case with the studies of 'chronic Lyme disease' sufferers who apparently saw no benefit from ABX.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
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  17. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    i have all the tinctures. i think im super sensitive to the alcohol. i know you can put it in hot water to boil off some of the alcohol but also heat reduces the effectiveness. a catch-22... have you noticed the mepron liquid is hard to measure accurately? its all foamy and bubbly. hard to get a teaspoon with it so foamy.

    edit: just took 10 drops of red root tincture. hoping for the best.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  18. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    @Dufresne , would you mind precise where do you get a reputable source of red root and cryptolepis please ?
    You don't have to mix the tincture with something else (like pure virgin olive oil) in order to dilute the stuff a bit ?
     
  19. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    i get mine from woodland essence. they seem to have most of buhner's herbs in tincture form. i dilute it with water. it burns my mouth if I don't due to the alcohol.
     
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  20. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    @Hanna, Woodland Essence is the place to go for most of the Buhner herbs. Very high quality tinctures. They use organic non-GMO corn for the alcohol. The tinctures are between 60 and 70% alcohol. This makes them somewhat problematic for some, but they're the most potent you'll find. You can also get red root at iHerb. The second one on the link below is probably the better value.

    http://www.iherb.com/search?sug=red root&kw=red root&rank=1#p=1

    It's cheaper for me to order through iHerb, as I live in Canada. If I were in the states I'd order all my tinctures from Woodland Essence.

    @acrosstheveil, you can buy empty capsules at a decent supplements shop. The ones I have hold exactly forty drops, so I don't have to sit there counting drops 3-4 times a day with multiple tinctures. You can mix the tinctures in the capsules, of course, and you feel nothing on the way down. Moreover, as I mentioned in the previous post, you're far less likely to have a negative reaction to the tincture this way. If I were taking my drops on my tongue or dropping them to the back of my throat I'd have a sore throat all day.

    Glad to hear you're trying the red root. Just know that it might take a few days to fully kick in. Mine started slowly on the first day and I wasn't even sure what it was. The second day was a bit heavier, a weird sort of feeling in my head and nose. By the evening of the third I was levelled; downing vitamin C like a madman and drinking baking soda solution. Not fun.
     
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