New protocol combines methylation, mito, glutathione support, etc.

Hi, all.

I want to let you know about a new protocol that a fellow named Ian Hodgson posted to the ProHealth board a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.prohealth.com/fibromyalgia/blog/boardDetail.cfm?id=1426304

This looks very interesting to me. It appears to combine

methylation-type treatment (B12 and folinic acid) with

mitochondrial support (acetyl carnitine, Co-Q10, magnesium citrate or magnesium malate, niacinamide, and the new PQQ),

transsulfuration pathway support (B6), and

glutathione support (NAC and curcumin),

as well as including vitamins D3 and K2 and a multivitamin.

I don't know any more about it than he included in his post, so I refer you there.

Best regards,

Rich

Yes, I suspect many of us are taking most of those supps already.

Do you have any thoughts on the dosages suggested? For instance, he recommends 800 mcg folate, thrice daily.

Have you decided on any changes to your protocol?

Right, would be surprised if most aren't already on most of those. Haven't tried PQQ yet - have you tried that, adreno?

Rich, like every other protocol, how would someone with sensitivities to supplements begin? I have overcome a lot of food sensitivities lately with homeopathy and pranic healing. But I still have issues with supplements which I didn't have before I got sick. And I haven't been keeping up here lately, what is PQQ? Thanks, Shelly!

It is great to read that this man is functioning at 85-90% again. Many doctors and practitioners will recommend these supplements, but it seems like the majority of people do not experience a significant improvement (I'm just basing this off of user input on forums, so I could definitely be wrong). I wish they could do a clinical trial on something like this.

Rich, is there a purpose to taking high doses of certain supplements? For example, this person took doses of B6, folate, K2, and niacinamide several times the RDA. I understand that for folate and vitamin D you may want high doses, but is the body able to utilize the other vitamins when it exceeds daily needs?

BTW, I communicated with someone online who said that PQQ was helpful for his CFS post exertional malaise.

PQQ - rings a bell from another post a while back - anyone remember?
Justy

I ate whole bottle of PQQ and it did nothing for me. I do not know dosages in other things, but I took/take all of them and yes, most of them were helpful, but to some very limited degree.

Hi Rich,

This is very interesting. Thank you for posting this.

I was wondering if you could explain one thing form this protocol. It says:

´* magnesium citrate or magnesium malate 200mg TD (To support vitamin D and to reduce muscular cramps and pain)
*vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol, not ergocalciferol and not calcitriol 120 mcg TD, also limit calcium to no more than 500 mg daily) After one month reduce vitamin D to 120 mcg once daily, smae with vitamin K´

Do you know why the calcium needs to be limited to 500 mg daily? I currently take the following calcium/magnesium supplement: http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Calcium-Magnesium-250-Tablets/15294

It contains 1 g of calcium and 400 mg of magnesium per serving (3 tabs). I was under the impression that calcium helps to absorb magnesium and that this was the correct reatio to take. What do you think is the correct ratio and do you think it's better to take calcium and magnesium separately instead? I thought it actually worked best in combination.

Many thanks for your help and everything you do here!

Cureminded

Its very odd how some seem to have tremendous success with these supplements and others have ziltch. I've been on most of these for years and seen absolutely no improvement.
And Hodgson seems to think low vit D is a key problem, but I for one have very high levels after supplementing for a while and am no better.

I suspect having success or not with these mito support supplements could distinguish two rather different subsets of ME.

Jenny

Yes, it makes me very irritable for some reason. Other than that, no real change. Maybe I haven't been taking it long enough.

I suspect having success or not with any supplementation would depend on the environment.
Where you live
What you eat
What other medications you take
What you do with your day.
Because the environment is impossible to quantify, in studies they pretend it does not exist.
But you could very well annihilate the effect of one supplement by taking something that would eat it up, not to speak of the potency of different brands.

Depends also on the power of your immune system (auto-immune reaction or not), viral load, bacteria, number of available cell receptors (opiate, sugar, ...) etc

Shelly--

I bought a bottle of PPQ a few months ago, to add to my collection of never ending supplement bottles... but I have not even opened it yet, and have no idea what it will do to me if I take some. I think it was Mellster who told me about it, so you might ask him for more info.

It says: Mitochondrial Biogenesis Support on the bottle. The dose is 1 capsule once or twice daily, and under that it says KEEP OUT REACH OF CHILDREN followed by DO NOT EXCEED RECOMMENDED DOSE.

That warning is what has prevented me from trying it. If 1 capsule 2X daily is a maximum dose, then it must be strong stuff! I want to know how others have fared taking it, before I experiment on myself yet again. Until then the safety seal remains on the bottle.

Thanks for the info DB. I hope hope you are doing better. I know what you mean by being cautious.

Hi Shelly-- Your welcome. I am a bit better (for now!) so thanks for your good wishes.

Yes, after all my recent toxic reaction escapades in the world of supplementation, CAUTION is the key word.

Yes, I've learned this the hard way also, lol.

Think the best addition to the simplified protocol is going to be NT Factor. Have to repair the damage somehow, and that provides building blocks even if methylation's not turned on yet. Hope my theory is right, b/c I have some on the way. : P

Like Lala said above, I've also taken PQQ and it did nothing for me as well. Doesn't mean it won't help someone though.

Hi, Cureminded.

You're welcome.

I don't know the reason for the calcium limit. I know that Amy Yasko warns against too much calcium, because it is involved in the process of excitotoxicity in the neurons, and that is a problem with PWME's as well as autistics.

Yes, generally speaking that ratio of calcium to magnesium is about right. However, it may be best to lower the ratio for ME/CFS, because intracellular magnesium is low in this disorder, and intracellular calcium can be too high. I think that occurs because the membrane ion pumps are not working as well as they should. One issue is low ATP production by the mitochondria, because they are dysfunctional.

Best regards,

Rich

There is PQQ in my daily B ultra vitamin by PURE encapsulations. Dont know what it does.