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New prospective study finds fatigue associated with two inflammatory markers

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Woolie, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. Woolie

    Woolie Gone now, hope to see you all again soon somewhere

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    Association of C-reactive protein and interleukin-6 with new-onset fatigue in the Whitehall II prospective cohort study
    Cho, H. J., Kivimäki, M., Bower, J. E., & Irwin, M. R. (2013).
    Psychological medicine, 43(08), 1773-1783.

    (Click on title for full text link)

    This is potentially important work. The absence of biomarkers associated with fatigue severity has been used to argue that it is a largely due to psychological factors. This is true in CFS, and also in other diseases that feature fatigue as a prominent symptom (e.g., MS, lupus). If we can find a biomarker that predicts fatigue at the group level - even if it can't fully predict how much fatigue any particular individual will experience - then that's a huge step forward.
     
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  2. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    Plasma CRP and IL-6 have been measured plenty of times and do not show a distinct association in ME/CFS patients.

    This suggests that although Plasma CRP and IL-6 can be associated with fatigue, these are neither specific, nor sensitive measures.
     
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  3. Woolie

    Woolie Gone now, hope to see you all again soon somewhere

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    Yes, I did see that its only a group-level effect. Still, I think its a step forward, since people have used the absence of biological correlates of fatigue as evidence that it is entirely psychological.
     
  4. Mark

    Mark Former CEO

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    Have these markers ever been assessed in short duration vs long duration patients? Were they covered yet by Lipkin et al?
     
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  5. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    IL-6 was found low in long term patient's CSF and blood and elevated in short duration patient's blood. Not sure about CRP.
     
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  6. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Is this Dr Light?

    GG
     
  7. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    I was referring to the Lipkin/Hornig work. I do believe that Light found increased IL-6 expression as well.
     
  8. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

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    they are talking about some "onset".

    i didnt see a doctor/go to a blood test, when feeling very bad.
    in fact, i canceled appointments like verything else. frequently.

    i would go there, when being halfway ok.

    what is CPR? is it quite a constant, or can it change daily?

    in contrary faik vitamin b12 (or other vitamins) are 'stored' in the body, and can therefore be measured once, to have a valid indication.
     
  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn WE ARE KINA

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    My ESR was consistently elevated in the first few years of illness, and CRP was elevated on the one occasion when it was tested during that period.

    I think some things get repeated ("ME patients have low CRP"), based on very little evidence. Then it gets repeated more, and people think it's established fact.
     
  10. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  11. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    My fatigue correspond with ANY inflammatory marker I can have high, like high IL10 and IL6 being normal. And I still feel that really bad fatigue.
     
  12. Woolie

    Woolie Gone now, hope to see you all again soon somewhere

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    Not sure these results have anything specific to say about MECFS. They just support the idea that fatigue as a general symptom may have biological correlates - specifically, those related to inflammation.

    So just a point against the purely psychogenic view of fatigue.
     
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  13. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    I'm not so sure about that... Lately in the psychogenic view they say things like: oh but depression has inflammation markers too! (turning things upside down as per usual)
     
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  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn WE ARE KINA

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    Yeah, but who the hell takes those sorts of claims seriously?

    "I'm sorry, but your thoughts are making your tissues swell. Think happy thoughts until the inflammation subsides." o_O
     
  15. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    When have they ever cared about anyone taking them seriously? :rolleyes:
    'I've tried this, but it didn't do anything for me.'
    'But have you really tried it?' 'Yes I have, it didn't work.'
    'I'm sure you didn't put in all the effort you could have' 'Yes I did, it just didn't work.'
    'Get out! You just don't want to get better!'
    That's how logic works in their world :cautious:
     
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  16. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    A large part of the game they are playing is keeping things vague. If they attempted to explain in detail how thoughts are supposedly causing inflammation in tissues it would quickly start to look ridiculous.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Woolie

    Woolie Gone now, hope to see you all again soon somewhere

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    Yea, you're absolutely right, @Effi, that new model of depression we discussed, can't remember the thread. Will see if I can find it.
     
    Effi likes this.
  18. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

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    couldnt they just measure the endotoxins and exotoxins in the body?
    they may make some brains scans, red, blue, green ...
    this whole brain scan thing is occupational therapy for them idiots, imvho
     

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