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:New paper 10th Nov: Brain chemistry study shows CFS and GWI as unique disorders

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Countrygirl, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-11/gumc-bcs110817.php

    PUBLIC RELEASE: 10-NOV-2017
    Brain chemistry study shows chronic fatigue syndrome, Gulf War illness as unique disorders


    GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER

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  2. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    Here is the link to the full paper:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-15383-9
    Exercise – induced changes in cerebrospinal fluid miRNAs in Gulf War Illness, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and sedentary control subjects


     
  3. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5070425/Chronic-fatigue-syndrome-not-mind.html

    The Daily Mail reports on the study and prints a ridiculous photo of a yawing typist, illustrating once again that they just 'don't get it', but at least the article is one step forward.




    Chronic fatigue syndrome is NOT all in the mind- but caused by changes in brain chemistry, a study finds
    • Chronic fatigue syndrome and Gulf War Illness are caused by changes in brain chemistry and are not psychological disorders
    • Both disorders cause pain, physical and mental fatigue, cognitive dysfunction and flu-like symptoms
    • Controversy has raged for nearly 30 years on whether the disorders were genuine illnesses
    • Now researchers from Georgetown University have found changing levels in molecules in sufferers' brains
    By KAYLA BRANTLEY FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

    PUBLISHED: 16:21, 10 November 2017 | UPDATED: 16:21, 10 November 2017



    Chronic fatigue syndrome is not a psychological disorder as previously thought, researchers claim after finding evidence that the condition is caused by changes in brain chemistry.

    Controversy has raged for nearly 30 years on whether the debilitating condition that causes pain, physical and mental fatigue and cognitive dysfunction was a genuine illness as critics speculated that it was all in the mind.

    Now researchers have found changing levels in a brain molecule called miRNA in patients, which is responsible for turning protein production on and off, subsequently causing the tiring symptoms.

    The findings lay the groundwork to better treat and understand the disorder that affects nearly three million Americans.

    [​IMG]

    +1
    Chronic fatigue syndrome and Gulf War Illness are caused by changes in brain chemistry and are not psychological disorders as it was previously thought, a study from Georgetown University found



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-fatigue-syndrome-not-mind.html#ixzz4y3JYh6Sb
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  4. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    Not a good day for Sir Simon Wessley.:rolleyes:

    He got it wrong about Camelford.

    He got it wrong about GWI

    He got it wrong about ME.

    isn't it about time he retired before he embarrasses himself further?
     
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  5. lilpink

    lilpink Senior Member

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    Not as much fun for us than if he had a very public fall from grace ;)
     
  6. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    I doubt that will happen, as he is an Establishment figure. They are well protected as we know.
     
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  7. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Ugh the photo.
     
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  8. lilpink

    lilpink Senior Member

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    The Teflon coating of many a big cheese (to mix metaphors) can wear thin. In every walk of life those who think they can behave however they like and get away with it are finding that there is a day of reckoning after all.
     
  9. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    ..........................Usually after they are safely six feet under...............:(
     
  10. Murph

    Murph :)

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    "CFS was distinguished from the other groups by having significant reductions of miR-126-5p, miR-186-3p, miR-19b-3p, miR-92a-3p and miR-505-3p compared to the nonexercise cfs0 group (Fig. 10). Specificities and sensitivities were about 0.82 for miR-328, miR-608 and miR-92a-3p. The large number of exercise – induced reductions in miRNAs differentiated CFS from SC and the GWI phenotypes"


    "CFS had 12 diminished and zero elevated miRNAs after exercise indicating its pathophysiology and responses to exercise were unique compared to GWI and control subjects."

    Idk what it means but it looks like they found a real result..
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  11. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Thanks for posting @Countrygirl! I skimmed the paper very quickly, I'm not a scientist at all, but this seems huge to me, finding distinct signatures for CFS and 2 variations of GWI in cerebrospinal fluid, post-exertion. When rested, these abnormalities were not present. This seems potentially a game-changer to me, or maybe I'm overly optimistic?
     
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  12. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Sometimes in people with channelopathies, neurologists will evoke a response through exercise or eating something. This evocation defines or helps parse down on the diagnosis.

    What Baraniuk and his team may have done is found a way of demonstrating CFS through another exercise mechanism, or he may have found a way of demonstrating two types of PEM.

    I cannot get my head around the semantics, or if there is any meaningful distinction between CSF abnormalities leading to a direct diagnosis, or one step removed via PEM.

    BTW, I think there may be more coming out of that team. As I recall, the study protocol included two fMRIs - one before, and one after exercise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  13. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    and other things

    it's one thing to make a screw up on an esoteric part of Science that has no effect on people, that gets you disgraced and maybe lose a job.
    it is something completely different to actively prevent research, treatment and humane behaviour to seriously ill people, that should get you jailed for murder.
     
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  14. ash0787

    ash0787 Senior Member

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    sigh, daily mail people shouldn't write science articles unless they have a reasonable level of experience with it,
    trying to say it causes it is completely misleading
     
  15. RogerBlack

    RogerBlack Senior Member

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    Meh.
    It's not technically accurate, but the author gets a hell of a pass for the first words being
    I'd almost give them a pass if they gave the reason as problems with the midichlorians after that.
     
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  16. Murph

    Murph :)

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    Am I going mad or do the captions in the graphics not match the graphics? (a) appears to refer to miR -99, but the caption say miR-22 and the description of the distributions makes no sense either.
    Screen Shot 2017-11-12 at 3.54.17 PM.png


    I've found the same sort of issue in trying to interpret all the graphs. I don't know much about miRNA but I'm trying to learn and this is very confusing.

    EDIT: First 4 graphics are okay. Then some of them seem to be offset e.g. caption on graph 8 refers to graph 7. Others make no sense.

    EDIT 2: I emailed James Baraniuk who seems to be a very nice man and he is trying to get the captions fixed. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 4:17 PM
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  17. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Basic question here: why do the sample sizes vary so much in the non-exercise and post-exercise groups? Are they completely different groups or was data missing for some? I thought everyone did exercise test? For example, "non-exercise" gulf war: n=22. Post-exercise, n=64 (22+42). For CFS, non-exercise group n=43; post-exercise, n=16.
     
  18. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Just guessing, but I'd think that there were some CFS patients who were too severe or who the researchers ethically decided probably shouldn't exercise.
     
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  19. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    But why would there be a lot more GWI patients in the post exercise group than at baseline?
     
  20. Murph

    Murph :)

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    @Dolphin Their methods section is kind of a mess but my read was theythey have two broad groups, one tested after sleep, one after exercise.

    What they haven't done is give the same person two lumbar punctures, before and after exercise. (so far as I can tell) Perhaps because of the nature of that procedure?

    The sample sizes are different in the different broad groups. The reason they have so many post-exercise GWI patients is, I suspect, they are trying to get a good sample size on each of their two hypothesised groupings, START and STOPP (first one has tachycardia, second one doesn't).
     
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