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New Joliceur Canadian XMRV Study

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Cort, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    This is similar to the study that Dusty Miller is getting together - looking for people who have already tested positive for XMRV

  2. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    SMRV virus? Squirrel monkey retrovirus?
    Is that a typo?

    edit: it seems it was a typo :D
  3. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    I think he is a very good example of someone who has so far not been able to find XMRV but is going about it in an honest and good way. He does not claim it's not there prematurely or criticizes those who claim that they have found it, he tries to find out what's really going on...
  4. zzzz

    zzzz

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    This looks very much like what was published sometime back in Sept. Are you sure this is a new study? I participated in the fall study and we don't have results yet.
  5. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    I think that looking for XMRV positive people that are just from Ontario would be somewhat difficult, especially if he wants to get more than 1 or 2 of those.
    Perhaps he should at least extend it to all of canada, or to all the people who would be able to arrive at his clinic and give their blood sample there?
  6. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I don't know if there was a spring/summer study, fall study and this study but I think this is a new study.
  7. boomer3

    boomer3

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    If Dr. Jolicoeur did not want people to travel to montreal I would have thought that he would limit the research to Quebec instead of Ontario. Since he speaks French, I expect he meant that the study was limited to people living in Quebec.
  8. thegodofpleasure

    thegodofpleasure Player in a Greek Tragedy

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    What will he be doing differently ?

    Is there any indication of what type of investigational methods he will be using and what he will be doing differently from his first attempt ?

    As we now know, if the study only intends to employ PCR, then it is highly likely to be unable to find the virus.

    It would be good to get some reassurance on this issue before people volunteer for the study.
  9. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    I would really hope that he would do the at least the antibody assay exactly as the WPI/NCI does it.
    I think scientists here have to be humble. They must remember that menkind does not know yet everything about science, and actually, is very far from knowing everything. Therefore, they must understand that even something that they don't believe can make a difference - can, actually, make that difference. And there are tens and hundreds of parameters - so if you say that you don't believe, let's say, that 15 of these parameters would make a difference (if you use them as the WPI did or as you yourself did), you have 15 times higher probability to get that one little think that you were sure is that the difference between your's and WPI's/NCI's assay is no significant, and it would actually be significant - likely without you knowing it even afterwards.

    Therefore, do at least one of the assays exactly as the WPI/NCI did, from A to Z, from collection, thorugh storage and processing, to testing. And it's better, in my opinion, to do it with the antibody assay, because as far as I understand it, that assay would recognize strains that might be different from what was found until now by PCR, but which are still gammaretrovirus (and currently it doesn't significantly matter if you call it XMRV, PMRV, or XMRV with 30 nucleotides difference).
  10. Bergamot

    Bergamot

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    The Dr Jolicoeur study is aimed to deny the XMRV theory. On the first cohort, only 1 out of 70 ME/CFS patients were tested positive for XMRV. There was a second large cohort, we don't know the general results, but I suffer textbook since early childhood and was tested negative. He positioned against the blood ban for Quebec, who has a separate agency from the rest of Canada, which still allows for ME/CFS donors if they feel well on that day. The health politics in Quebec are like in UK, hugely in favor of psychiatric factors. Hence the New Guidelines for Quebec favouring CBT and GET, and rehabilitation centres.
  11. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Do you have any idea when the study will be done and results released?
  12. Chris

    Chris Senior Member

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    As a former long time Montrealer, this sounds very sad indeed--I had hoped for better. Ah well... Chris
  13. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Dr Jolicoeur is a 30 year long MLV researcher. He didn't find it the first time around due to methodology. I bet he is kicking himself for not finding it. I hear he is the nicest person and would really like to find it. Scientists like him don't give squat about psycholizers, he's a retrovirologist.

    Unfortunately he didn't get funded for a second study. So I suspect he had to look for other pockets to fund it. I say, give him time, he will find it.
  14. Ecoclimber

    Ecoclimber Senior Member

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    Joliceur is seriously in trying to find the cause and cure for ME/CFS patients. He is totally supportive of the ME/CFS community is steadfastly and tirelessly working to find the solution with limited funding. The first cohort of patients were negative. He is a well respected Canadian retrovirologist within the retovirology community. You have to understand the difference between a general medical doctor like Dr. Cheney, Peterson, Bell and a Virologists like Dr. Alter and Montoya and retrovirologists like Mikovits, Miller, Singh etc.

    There is more to this study then meets the eye which I cannot disclosed based on an agreement that I have with Mikovits and the WPI but Mikovits knows about his research and more information will be forthcoming on his second go around. Kati is right in her assessment.
  15. fla

    fla Senior Member

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    I went to an ME/CFS presentation Sunday by Dr. Denis Phaneuf who is the Montreal authority on this disease. He mentioned that XMRV has nothing to do with us and a yet unpublished study will confirm this. He briefly mentioned errors in science and that XMRV was fascinating for scientists and they are continuing to study it but it is categorically not related to us. Today on a Montreal radio station Dr Denis Phaneuf mentioned that a researcher called Jolicoeur will soon publish a study distancing XMRV from this syndrome. Just speculation but it sounds like Dr Denis Phaneuf is one of the peers in the peer review of the Jolicoeur study.
  16. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I wonder if he might have supplied the patients to Dr. Joliceur...it sounds like publication of the study is imminent. I believe Joliceur was looking at people who formerly tested positive for XMRV at the WPI. Thanks for the update.
  17. Bob

    Bob

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    I don't know anything about him, but if he is looking for positive controls, then it sounds like he might be taking the search for XMRV seriously.
    As far as I understand it, a researcher would only use positive controls if they are prepared to demonstrate that their own study has failed.
    And if he can detect XMRV in the controls, and uses the same method for the samples, then I would have thought that he would be giving it his fairest shot.
  18. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Jolicoeur has researched MLV's all his life. If you look him up on google, you'd find publications dating from the 1970's. His first shot trying to look for XMRV failed. He didn't use WPI's reagents. Second time around would be disappointing for all if he still didn't find it. :-(
  19. fla

    fla Senior Member

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    Montreal, Canada
    We must wait for the study to be published as on Sunday he didn't mention the name Jolicoeur when he was categorically saying a study soon to be published shows XMRV has nothing to do with "you guys" (the room full of ME/CFS patients). He wasted no time discussing XMRV as it was now considered irrelevant. Today on the radio he only briefly mentioned a study to be soon published about XMRV and the name Jolicoeur but didn't say much else. I put 2 and 2 together and speculated that Jolicoeur's study is the one he was referring to on Sunday.

    Dr Phaneuf is a true scientist and doesn't conclude things easily so the soon to be published (Jolicoeur???) study must be quite convincing about the lack of link between XMRV and ME/CFS.
  20. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Scientist? Isnt he a clinician?

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