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New here--just started Methyl B12 shots

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by whitmore, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. whitmore

    whitmore

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    Princeton, NJ
    I suffer from chronic, worsening depression which feels physical in nature and is now failing to respond to SSRIs at therapeutic doses. I live in NJ and have gone to see Dr. Neubrander in order to get the functional methylation panel done in Holland. I'm awaiting results. In the meantime, the doctor gave me an Rx for methyl B12 shots at a daily dose of 1.25 mg per day, subQ, since he said that we all need B12. Fair enough.I started them on Saturday and spent the weekend in bed feeling drowsy, but not sleeping. Since then, I've noticed no change in energy or mood.

    Yesterday I felt a bit better, but today the crushing depression is back. Complicating things is my weaning off Cytomel and Armour Thyroid, that I was taking for depression and because I have a high RT3/low free T3 problem and have had for a few years. I've been off 25 mcg of Cytomel now for 10 days, Armour for 2 weeks, though was still depressed while on them. I came off as I don't seem to have the adrenal function to support the increase in energy requirements and I also want to go up a level in working back to find causes of my issues. I don't want to take full replacement doses of Cortef if I can possibly avoid it.

    Is it normal to feel no benefit from the B12 in the beginning? I'm beginning to think I need just much, much more since I've felt depressed for about 8 years now. The only times I've felt normal are when I take Vyvanse and Adderall, but the crashes and insomnia prevent me from taking stimulants all the time.

    I don't take any other vitamins or supplements right now. I do take Buhner herbs for Lyme disease. Was on antibiotics for 2 years, and wonder if that might have caused malabsorption issues.

    I'm used to pushing through things and am lucky enough to still be able to work and jog, so better off than many on this board. But I'm so miserable....any advice?
     
  2. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    You might want to try a good quality sublingual methyl b12 such as enzymatic therapy. The thread called 'b12 the hidden story' has great info to start on the active b12 protocol. Many of us have found improvement by following freddd's advice.
     
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Whitmore,

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/

    Read this and understqand it as best you can. It will give us some basis for questions. You will also find a discussion of cytomel.

    After you read the thread, you will have different questions.
     
  4. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    >>Was on antibiotics for 2 years, and wonder if that might have caused malabsorption issues.

    Probiotics may help with depression and malabsorption. I take a Jarrow dophilious 3x a day. Most neuropeptides are apparently produced in the gut and recent studies with mice show direct involvement of gut bacteria on the vagus nerve, a connection to the brain. Worth a try. My body went wild when I tried them several years ago, but last year when I tried again, it was fine.

    I also take Synthroid and so I know how intense the effect on mood is with thyroid function.

    I'm not an expert on B12 dosages. Fredd's link above also includes all the co-factors, which can make a critical difference.

    A lot of things affect mood -- magnesium had a huge mood effect for me, which I hadn't realized until I stopped taking it and became furious.

    A B-multi is also critically important for me in terms of the emotional coping of the stimulation of B-12, which I also discovered when I became unusually furious one day and felt out of control. I doubled my dosage of B-Right and calmed down right away.
     
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Victronix reminded me of mentioning what I have found helpful with lifelong resistant depression, in order applied. MeCbl, AdoCbl, SAM-e, Zinc, LCF, L-methylfolate. Each one helped incrementally. Basically the depression came out of the basement within an hour of MeCbl first dose of 1000mcg sublingual Enzymatic Therapy. I knew within the first 5 minutes of MeCbl that my life was changed.
     
  6. whitmore

    whitmore

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    Princeton, NJ
    About to throw in the towel on protocol. After spending all my adult life hyper and unable to sleep, with physical/mental energy even when depressed, I'm now finding I am half asleep all the time. Literally. I close my eyes and I'm in a dream. The only thing I can attribute this to is the methyl B12 raising melatonin levels and causing something similar to narcolepsy. In fact, I had some Provigil that I had been given years ago and have had to resort to that to get through my work day.

    Funnily enough, my son at 14 took some melatonin and ended up calling the police since his dream of a home invasion was so vivid! My husband and I being frisked at gunpoint at 3 in the morning was alarming, but is an amusing story at dinner parties! Anyway, my point is that there may be some genetic sensitivity to melatonin that could be causing these sleep problems.

    Still have the shocking back/arm/mouth rash that I've posted about before, but this is not a deal breaker.

    No potassium problems, have tried various doses of methyfolate(all the way up to Deplin), all the cofactors, dibencozide . The current MB12 dose is about 1.5 mg subQ, but if I'm going to continue need to take it right down to about 0.75 Or perhaps switch to hydroxocobalimin.

    Anyone think that my melatonin theory has merit?

    Regards everyone.

    Sue
     
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Have you gotten your functional methylation panel back yet? If so, what are the results?

    It sounds like you may want to discontinue the B12 for now and let all the symptoms clear out. Then restart at a much lower dose and see if you tolerate that better. Try 150mcg or so. That would be about 1/8 of your previous dose, so it should make you 1/8 less sleepy.

    You can get your neurotransmitters tested to see what your melatonin levels are, but in general, the more you crank up methylation, the more neurotransmitters you'll make. So if it's too much, you just need to back off.
     
  8. whitmore

    whitmore

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    Princeton, NJ
    Below are my results from before I started taking any methyl B12 or methylfolate. It all looks pretty bad, but I felt so much better than I do now. My doctor wants to get everything in mid-range, but this doesn't seem possible. Are these results awful? Should I still be standing?


    Methylation panel:

    i) Total GSH is low at 3.69 (RR: 3.96 -6.00; midrange = 4.98).
    ii) Oxidized GSH is very high normal at 0.49 ((RR: 0.16 - 0.50; midrange = 0.33).
    iii) Reduced GSH is low at 3.2 (RR: 3.8- 5.5; midrange = 4.65).
    iv) REDUCED TO OXIDIZED RATIO is very low at 6.53 with our goal being between 15-25; midrange = 20.
    v) SAM is low at 213 (RR: 221- 256; midrange = 238.5).
    vi) SAH is very good at 39.5 (RR: 38.0 - 49.0; midrange = 43.5).
    vii) Adenosine is normal at 21.0 (good) (RR 16.8 - 21.4; midrange = 19.1).
    viii) Methylfolate is low normal at 9.2. (RR: 8.4 - 72.6; midrange = 40.5).
    ix) 10-formyl-THF is low normal at 1.8 (RR: 1.5 - 8.2; midrange = 4.85).
    x) THF is low at 0. (RR: 0.60 -6.80; midrange = 3.7).
    xi) PLASMA folinic acid (5-formyl-THF) is low normal at 2.30 (RR: 1.20 - 11.70; midrange = 6.45)
    xii) INTRACELLULAR folinic acid is low normal at 9.3 (RR: 9.0 - 35.5;midrange = 22.25).
    xiii) PLASMA folic acid is low normal at 8.9 (RR: 8.9 - 24.6; midrange = 16.75)
    xiv) INTRACELLULAR folic acid is low at 331 (RR: 400 - 1500; midrange = 950).









































































    Sue
     
  9. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    California
    Many docs don't use methyl B 12 in adults until they know your baggage and COMT status. dr. N is more of a push thru it kind of doc because he pioneered this approach. Maybe you should drop the dose by taking half until your methylation pathway can sorta catch up. You don't have to inject the whole shot if its already premade. For what its worth, I think your having heavier detox and feel like crap with the clean up but it could be regular old start up. Either way, if you can't take time off work you don't have a choice, you'll need to drop the dose or drop the shots altogether.


     
  10. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Regarding the methylation panel results - they sound fairly similar to mine, with most of the values at either the very high or very low range. Rich Van Konynenburg wrote an excellent interpretation of the panel that you can use to figure out what the results really mean. See the link in my signature.
     
  11. whitmore

    whitmore

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    Princeton, NJ
    Thanks for replies. Been 2 days off the shots now and don't feel much better. Guess it'll take a week or so. I fill the syringe with the MB12 solution, so the dose is easily modified without waste.
    Can't take time off work--especially since if this is detox, would take a year or so to resolve. I'm not young, so there's an awful lot to clear out.
    I do see Dr. N. and he doesn't really treat COMT, CBS etc. He thinks that if you get the methylation cycle going, the rest will fall into place. I do have COMT++ and CBS +-(in signature). So far, all I've been doing for it is taking Lactulose and Molybdenum. I think I might have sulphur issues, but don't know what to do about it. Especially since I take Alpha Lipoic Acid and Dr. N wants me to take Acetyl-L-carnitine and Glutathionine, which all have sulphur, I believe.
    With my genetic profile, what should I be taking?
    Sue
     

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