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New BPS 'breakthrough' paper : childhood sexual harassment predicts ME severity

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Countrygirl, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    :bang-head::bang-head::bang-head::bang-head::bang-head:

    :wide-eyed:


     
  2. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    What is this? The 80s?
     
  3. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    It would be interesting to view the whole paper to see if they give any evidence for this ridiculous claim.
     
  4. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    And if you cannot remember any such events no doubt assistance can be provided in recovering memories.
     
  5. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

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    "One step forward and two steps back...."
     
  6. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    I do remember my leg being humped by my nephew's dog one time. Could Bello really be the cause of my M.E.?
     
  7. lafarfelue

    lafarfelue Senior Member

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    this is fury inducing

    can't say much else because it would all be swearing
     
  8. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes Senior Member

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    So much wrong with this, (and I've only read the abstract) from the very first words in the introduction. As far as I know there is no proven connection between childhood trauma and ME.

    As I understand it, they were trying to find out whether there was any connection between the type of childhood trauma and the severity of the symptoms. They mostly found there wasn't, apart from a slightly statistically significant correlation between severity of symptoms and sexual harassment.
    They deduce that the sexual harassment caused the more severe symptoms.

    This is statistically ignorant.
    1.
    First, this seems to be a classic case of p hacking. Carry out lots of statistical tests on a pile of data. Look for any that happen to fall just below the magic p = 0.05 level, and attribute meaning to what is probably a chance variation. If you do enough statistical tests on a completely random set of data, some of them are sure to fall in the p less than 0.05 category by chance. That's why psychologists love p hacking - they can do lots of questionnaires, run them through stats packages they probably barely understand, search for magic numbers less than 0.05, and hey presto, a published paper. They have 'discovered' something. And then no one else can replicate it, because it was just random variation.

    So they do some correlations and find most are not statistically significant, but, lucky for them, one is (slightly).

    2.
    Secondly, assume correlation implies causation.
    They find most of the factors they studied were not statistically significant, but luckily one was, so they build a theory around it. They already 'know' childhood trauma is a causative factor (not), now they have a great discovery - it's childhood sexual harassment that 'causes' worse symptoms.

    NO. Statistics lesson 1 : Correlation does not imply causation.

    Aaaargh!

    By the way, @Countrygirl , you might want to change the thread title. As I understand it, they are not saying harassment causes ME. They are saying it causes ME severity.

    As you say, it is a ridiculous claim.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  9. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    That has just broken the world record for ringing my alarm bells in the fewest number of words. Any time I hear "everyone knows that ..." or "it stands to reason that ..." or "it is common knowledge that ..." it's a signal that someone is about to make a claim for which they do not wish to be put to the trouble of providing evidence.

    To start your scientific paper with "There is wide consensus that ...", well it stands to reason that what follows is highly likely to be complete bo***cks.

    Anyway, I'm waiting for the Science Media Center's Expert Reaction before deciding what I think.

    Two steps forward and one step back I'd say. A questionable paper by a bunch of foreigners in a publication of which I was previously unaware hardly trumps the good old Daily Mail.
     
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  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Full text at http://sci-hub.io/10.1016/j.comppsych.2017.07.006

    Actually no - retrospective and appropriately controlled studies have disproven this:
    At least the researchers are upfront about believing that CFS is psychosomatic:
    No, it's a biomedical symptom, just like reduced 2-day CPET performance:
    This sounds a bit dodgy, recruiting for both a genetic study and a psychosocial study at the same time. I'd be curious to see what the patients were told on the consent forms. Also, it's a psychosomatic fatigue center (presumably the "Behaviour Therapy Division for Fatigue and Functional Symptoms"), and the CDC criteria don't require a patient to have PEM. And I'm not sure how they diagnose CFS via physical examination and lab measurements:
    Probably a lot of self-selection bias in this sample, since a large majority declined to participate. And the 558 were selected by the researchers themselves, not randomly, which would allow for them to "approach" patients who they knew had some childhood trauma:
    It's sloppy to include people with mood disorders which can cause fatigue in research, especially when using a poor diagnostic criteria like Fukuda:
    This suggests that their result was a fluke, which is to be expected when comparing numerous childhood trauma subscales to a fatigue and physical functioning scale. If sexual adversity of some sort were correlated to CFS symptoms, it would be expected that worse adversity (sexual abuse) would have more of an impact than sexual harassment, not less impact:
    Summary: Sloppy quack researchers produce sloppy quack research, and spin it a lot to prop up their pathetic careers. Poor patient selection practice, retrospective methodology, failure to correct for multiple comparisons, ignoring of contrary evidence, and a lax statistical threshold for correlations make this study yet another waste of time and resources.
     
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  11. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    Thanks @trishrhymes . I have amended the title. :thumbsup:
     
  12. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    "Women have wandering wombs which rule their minds, they must be masturbated by their medical professionals to relieve the symptoms of hysteria!"
    That was the ACTUAL belief and *practice* of the medical profession for decades.
    A large part of the reason for the development of the Hitachi "magic wand" was to rest the over worked hands of "doctors" (seriously)

    IMHO the only "sexual abuse" issue with ME/CFS, is that the medical professionals seem to be the ones with an excessive interest in it, so one must ask the question: WHY?
    were they abused as children, or does the issue arouse them, or give them excuses to abuse victims?
    In any event, they are QUACKS and fraudsters, possibly degenerate perverts, who have bugger all to do with treating the sick.

    Those who wrote this paper should be criminally investigated, IMHO, for medical fraud and abuse of patients, possibly worse.
    There is no legitimate excuse for conflating a dreadful physical ailment with childhood sexual abuse, NONE.
    This kind of bullshit is driven purely by the mentality, arrogance, stupidity or criminality of the so-called "researchers/doctors".
    Physical evidence of ME/CFS goes back SIXTY YEARS but has been deliberately ignored.
    Freudian psychiatry has been exposed as a twisted inept unscientific load of BULLSHIT, and it ha sno legitimate place in modern medicine.


    FYI, from my knowledge, I'd suggest around 1/3rd of all children are sexual or violently abused, all those who say "oh it's only bad nowadays!" are at best, ignorant, it was RIFE when I was a kid we just didn't see it much or hear of it, I wonder oh I wonder why it was squelched so damned hard by the media etc?
    From my own experiences with violence and sadistic abuse, the authorities were far more interested in protecting the "reputations" of their schools etc, than protecting children.

    I'm not a psychopath, I have had to deal with actual convicted psychopaths even *as a kid*, and I learned the hard way that the only way to deal with scum is to be utterly merciless and brutal if you wish to survive their appalling actions once they start on you, alas
    They have no concepts of respect, moderation, consequences of their actions for others, or compassion.
    I've also dealt with sociopaths and people who chose to be evil.
    I am not exaggerating, I have dealt with very, very malign people :( And some of them I kicked their damn balls into cubes :p
    Alas too many children and adults have not had such luck in dealing with the swine, especially because of the cowards, perverts, sadists, stupid and selfish bastards who help cover such stuff up.

    Fortunately, the vast majority of my friends, family neighbours etc, were lovely people :) (same with most any people anywhere in the world!)
    Human vermin are rare, it's just they go out of their way to cause trouble and thus their evil deeds are out of proportion for their numbers, and you remember trauma much more than cuddles and laughter because of the danger.

    So if sexual abuse of children was the cause of ME/CFS or other "medically unexplained illness", the incidence would be truly catastrophic and you'd have hundreds of millions or even a billion or more with the illnesses.


    I'd have these words BURNED a foot high into the walls of the British Medical Association with a plasma cutter as a lesson and warning for history.
     
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  13. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    First the psychosocial researchers claimed that they were being harrassed by patients. Now they are claiming on our behalf that patients must have suffered harrassment. The researchers' claims that they were harrassed have been found to be fictional. Their claims that patients must have been harrassed have been disproven. They are clearly suffering from Harrassment Fixation Disorder, as they are incapable of viewing this illness in any other terms and see harrassment everywhere they look.

    I hope it's not catching - did @trishrhymes just harrass @Countrygirl? Or have I just become the latest victim of HFD?
     
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  14. Hell...Hath...No...Fury..

    Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. Senior Member

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    Sexual harrassment did contribute/part cause my CFS. But I was 19 at the time, not a child. At work, (sexually harassed by an AJAX footy player) and he 'literally' gave me glandular fever. I wonder if glandular fever is psychological too :whistle:
     
  15. anni66

    anni66 mum to ME daughter

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    Sadly this is how psych constructs are being changed - genes are where they want to go to have some biomedical basis. Chalder is already moving on this
     
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  16. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    Also, if there actually was a "wide consensus" then I would seriously question their need to make a publication on the topic.

    No one needs to publish a paper to confirm that microorganisms can cause disease. Stating something for which there actually is wide consensus is entirely redundant.
     
  17. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    Just to point out they do not actually mention ME; only CFS.
     
  18. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes Senior Member

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    Ooh, I wonder if they will find the gene for patients harassing researchers.
     
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  19. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes Senior Member

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    I get your point, but unfortunately so do a lot of biomedical researchers, though this seems to be changing to ME/CFS recently.
     
  20. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    Yes, and worse they just use 'chronic fatigue', I wish they wouldn't.
     

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