May 12, 2017 Is International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day
International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day is May 12th, 2017. Jody Smith shares some information about upcoming events and ways you can be heard ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

New Blog By Dr Jamie: The Myth of Vaccine Safety

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Countrygirl, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl ME is not MUS

    Messages:
    2,693
    Likes:
    13,109
    UK
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2015
    leela, sianrecovery, Wayne and 7 others like this.
  2. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes:
    16,967
    I don't disagree that there is more to the vaccine story than we're being told by hysterical public health officials and the media but this idea that ME/CFS and autism are new diseases is not correct IMO. The same hypothesis is put forward in the book Plague by JM to support the case of a novel retrovirus infecting the population.

    The LA County General outbreak in 1934, while it may be the first recorded instance of a cluster of ME cases, isn't the first time this disease has been described. Descriptions go way back under different historical names like neurasthenia, neurocirculatory asthenia, effort syndrome, soldier's heart, Da Costa's syndrome etc.
     
    Hip, Marco, ahmo and 1 other person like this.
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,252
    Likes:
    33,596
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    To anyone who studies the science, its not about are vaccines safe. Its about do they lead to better health outcomes than non-vaccination? Its also about populations, not individuals. Individuals who react badly are, I think, outside the 95% mark in the bell curve. So from a population perspective they are anomalous outliers. Yet if you are one of those you would want to think twice about future vaccination.

    Vaccinations are not safe. Neither are the diseases people get vaccinated for. Its about relative risk. We definitely do not want to trust any drug company funded study as this introduces bias.

    For those who tolerate vaccines well there are grounds for considering the cost benefit ratio to be good. However this does not allow for adverse effects that are due to a new vaccine or individual variation.

    So the social good is there, is measurable, but if you are one of those who are harmed .... good luck trying to get compensation, that is if you have enough competence left to even try. Sure there are vaccine courts... in the US. Even then you are not guaranteed. Does anyone know what the success rate is for such court cases? In part the problem is that the medical tools necessary to prove to a high degree of certainty that the vaccines caused the issue are not even in existence. I suspect it becomes this doc said, that doc said.
     
  4. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes:
    677
    Czechosherlockia, USA
    It was about a week ago that the U.S. news was filled with the following:
    1. the current flu vaccine doesn't work
    2. everybody is still urged to get it
     
    PennyIA, August59, jimells and 5 others like this.
  5. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

    Messages:
    495
    Likes:
    660
    Austria
    As the environment changes faster, viruses and bacterias mutate faster. Time will come, and the virus of the vaccines, that the research evolves, is mutated yet again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  6. picante

    picante Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    864
    Helena, MT USA
    And from the same blog post by Jamie Deckoff-Jones, MD:
    "Neuroimmune disease patients are in a state of persistent immune activation which needs to be reduced with anti-inflammatory strategies. Vaccines do the opposite, on purpose. In addition, they are less likely to be effective in the presence of a preexisting inflammatory state."

    The current hysteria in the media resembles a witch hunt. Two of my self-proclaimed liberal friends on FB have jumped on the bandwagon, posting memes that smear anyone who questions vaccine safety or vaccine effectiveness. One of them has a law degree and an honorary doctorate in history. He's the Park Historian in Yellowstone NP. The other has a BA in history, and says that he sees many signs of fascism growing in the US. I think he has missed one.

    Family courts are starting to accept refusal to vaccinate as grounds for declaring a parent incompetent. This is bolstered by a lack of basic science to establish what vaccine-injured people have in common. How can we tell who is likely to be injured? Big Pharma is working hard not to answer that question.

    And meanwhile, we have the usual corporate shenanigans coming to light. Like bonuses for fudging the data: http://www.globalresearch.ca/merck-...-remain-silent-about-scientific-fraud/5430364

    I find this all very, very disturbing. Thanks for reading.
     
    natasa778, August59, Iquitos and 3 others like this.
  7. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes:
    677
    Czechosherlockia, USA
    That's the phrase for it. While driving, I heard a pediatrician being interviewed on the radio, bragging that he won't let un-vaccinated children into his office - while also saying that he would let anyone suspected of Ebola in.

    Some public schools are banning children.

    Whipping up the masses:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...reatened-community-not-vaccinating-child.html
    Family say they've been shunned by their community for refusing to vaccinate one of their kids - after three siblings had 'severe reactions'
    and related, from that same article:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
    beaker and ahmo like this.
  8. picante

    picante Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    864
    Helena, MT USA
    This was in the comments section of that article, @Sherlock.
    "Unfortunately, with gossips who dont check all the facts and over-reactors and no-life bullies as your neighbours, going public is just not a good idea."

    It's interesting that this was in a UK newspaper, and that they left out very pertinent information: what were the children's reactions, to which vaccines, and what is the "lifelong damage" for the one child? Also, what is the genetic information that has persuaded them that vaccines don't work for their kids?

    Without that sort of information, the media just encourages people to fall back on their well-established belief systems. More faith-based medicine, in other words.
     
  9. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes:
    677
    Czechosherlockia, USA
    I wouldn't be surprised if there will be public outings of children - by newspapers or the Facebook route.
    The Daily Mail is usually better than U.S. sources for U.S. news. Really. They have quicker coverage, more photos, and don't pussyfoot like most U.S. outlets do.
    The article noted that:
     
    picante likes this.
  10. picante

    picante Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    864
    Helena, MT USA
    Yes, I've noticed. I read U.S. news in the Guardian frequently. And also in Le Monde. ;)
     
    Sherlock likes this.
  11. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    965
    Colorado
    The Whittemore's daughter (sorry, forgot her name) is said to have gotten ME when she was required to get certain vaccinations before being admitted to a school/college. The US has a vaccination damage compensation program for a reason.

    Of course, the witch hunt portion of this process is being funded and promoted by the drug industry. This is the same process by which they character-assassinated Andrew Wakefield and made him into an evil pariah when he only suggested more research into the connection between autism and vaccinations in some cases. And it has only been a year or two since I saw news that a case of vaccination-caused autism was rewarded damages by the US compensation program.
     
  12. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

    Messages:
    872
    Likes:
    1,111
    Montreal
    I just finished watching the "updated" Frontline program, The Vaccine Wars, on PBS. I feel a bit silly for having entertained the idea they might mention the CDC whistle-blower situation. Unfortunately it was just more of the same old characters and same propaganda.

    Of course all the vaccine skeptics have ever wanted is a study comparing rates of autism among vaccinated and unvaccinated kids. This issue received about 10 seconds and was dealt with by Seth Mnookin of MIT. He claimed it would be unethical to conduct a traditional study of the two groups, as that would mean intentionally not vaccinating a number of children and this would put them at risk for developing serious illness. Okay, but then I had this great and novel idea: there is already a huge number of healthy children not being vaccinated... maybe we could use some of these kids to do the study and not place anybody else in danger. Wow, I think they could actually pull this off without being unethical!

    The other thing that could be tried is using the Denmark records that we keep hearing about. Apparently Denmark has kept immaculate records of births and vaccinations for all its citizens. These records were used to disprove the possible MMR connection, as well as that of thimerosol. Assuming they have a large enough number of unvaccinated people in the country, why not do the real study? Imagine how cheap, simple, fast and to the point that would be.

    These things don't make sense to me. If the government really wants to assure the public it's safe, why are they using crappy excuses like that proffered by Seth Mnookin, which I've heard elsewhere, to refuse conducting a very important study, one that should solve the problem of rising numbers of people opting not to vaccinate. I'm not prone to conspiracy theory but there really is something rotting in Denmark.
     
    sianrecovery, natasa778, *GG* and 3 others like this.
  13. Large Donner

    Large Donner Senior Member

    Messages:
    784
    Likes:
    3,321
    I recently watched a programme on Channel 4 called "the kids who cant stay awake" about the "mystery" of why so many children around Europe suddenly developed narcolepsy around 2010.

    Half way through I was waiting for the hack job in the style of the programme about the High school girls in LeRoy whereby they wheeled in the psychs to make up some nonsense about it being the first case of mass hysteria causing tourettes.

    However the outcome of the show was that it had been caused by the swine flu vaccine which was proved by a government backed study. I was amazed.

    The notion that any given medical intervention is 100% safe is pure fantasy especially when the whole point of a vaccine is to provoke an immune response.

    I just find it amazing that still today we are pushed the nonsense that the MMR, for example, is 100% safe especially in the face of admitting that we have issues with other vaccines like swine flu.

    The CDC MMR whistleblower issue is yet another example of politics over science in the name of the greater good. Except in such instances those people decide to play the greater God taking on the self appointed role of hiding information from us "for our own good".

    We also have no idea of the longer term affects of vaccines on risk categories for things like cancer and many neurological conditions. We are not going to be allowed to attempt to collect such data for the greater good because of the greater Gods.

    But dont worry "it" "they" whatever is 100% safe and its evidence based because there's no need to take a realistic look at the data or the science and if issues do turn up in the data the CDC can just bury them like they did in 2004. Its for our own good, right?

    Anyway here is the Channel 4 programme on the narcolepsy swine flu vaccine issue. If people cant watch it outside of the UK ill try put in online another way later.

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-kids-who-cant-stay-awake
     
  14. Large Donner

    Large Donner Senior Member

    Messages:
    784
    Likes:
    3,321
  15. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    965
    Colorado
    From the PBS interview of Anthony Fauci, head of NIH:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...risks-from-vaccines-are-almost-nonmeasurable/

    Excerpt:

    PBS: There’s a lot of distrust of the NIH, CDC and the scientific community. What do you feel when you hear: ”These guys are all corrupt. They’ve got conflicts of interest with industry, and they won’t do the research”?

    Fauci: That’s par for the course. That’s just not true. If you look at the kinds of questions that are asked, they are asked on a scientific basis. I don’t know of any important study that really does need to be done that researchers at the NIH, the CDC or the FDA would shy away from at all. But you just don’t do a study because you want to satisfy somebody’s concern when there’s no scientific reason to actually do the study.
    *****************************************

    I guess that explains why NIH and CDC won't research ME any more than their token efforts. They just don't want to "satisfy somebody's concerns when there's no scientific reason..." :rolleyes::mad:
     
    jepps, ahmo, picante and 1 other person like this.
  16. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,773
    Likes:
    2,448

    Except of course that is a blatant lie according to Dr Thompson, senior CDC researcher (aka CDC Whistleblower) who stated, more or less verbatim, that CDC is paralysed right now with regards to autism. They are getting more and more paralysed and do less and less research, as the place is coming to a grinding halt ...They are scared to reasearch anything related to autism for fear of what they might find

     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
    sianrecovery likes this.
  17. Kina

    Kina Admin Support Staff

    Messages:
    10,038
    Likes:
    15,948
    Ontario, Canada
    Do people not remember the devastation caused by smallpox, polio, whooping cough, measles, mumps, rubella etc. Back in the day, many many people lost their lives to these diseases. I remember having measles and mumps. It wasn't pleasant. Children these days don't have to suffer from these illnesses because of vaccinations. Nobody has ever claimed that vaccinations are 100 percent safe for everybody but scientific research has shown over and over that they don't cause autism.

    It's really hard for me to swallow all the anti-vax stuff. Canada and the USA have very low rates of vaccine-preventable diseases, but this isn’t true everywhere in the world. The only disease that has been eradicated from the world is Smallpox. Polio no longer occurs in the U.S. due to vaccinations, but it is still paralyzing children in several African countries. More than 350,000 cases of measles were reported from around the world in 2011, with outbreaks in the Pacific, Asia, Africa, and Europe due to lack of vaccinations. In that same year, 90% of measles cases in the U.S. were associated with cases imported from another country. Only the fact that most Americans are vaccinated against measles prevented these clusters of cases from becoming epidemics.

    I think saying that vaccinations are bad is forgetting the past thousands and thousands and thousands of deaths from smallpox, polio, measles etc.


    upload_2015-3-28_0-42-3.png

    I have to wonder why is all this anti-vax stuff consistently posted on Phoenix Rising as we are a site for ME/CFS.
     
    Kyla, JAH, Butydoc and 3 others like this.
  18. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    13,980
    Likes:
    21,291
    Albuquerque
    In my early childhood we weren't vaccinated in the usual sense. Rather, our family docs told us that if any kid in the neighborhood got mumps, chicken pox, measles etc. parents should have a play date for all the kids in the neighborhood (with the sick kid) so that we would get the illness before we started school. As Kina said, this wasn't fun and I'm sure some of those who were "vaccinated" in this way didn't do so well.

    When I was small we lived in terror of polio and were not allowed to play outside for weeks at a time in the summer. We saw those of our friends who got polio in leg braces or worse. When my school was asked to participate in an experimental polio vaccine program, it is hard to convey the relief we felt.

    Sure there can be side-effects for some from vaccines and the timing of vaccines might need to be re-evaluated, but the side effects of my early "vaccinations" were a lot worse.

    Sushi
     
    sianrecovery, Kyla, Butydoc and 4 others like this.
  19. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,773
    Likes:
    2,448

    Perhaps 'cos vaccines are one of the known triggers of ME and related autoimmune diseases. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


    No amount of 'preventable disease are bad for you' (yes they are, so is a serious vaccine injury) scaremongering takes away from the fact that vaccines carry big risks and that if one is injured for life there is very little chance of recognition and compensation. This is all made worse by the fact that we are deliberately kept in the dark wrt what the risks really are, and reluctance to study mechanisms of injury.

    Knowing for example exactly how/why someone's ME was triggered by a vaccine, through what precise mechanism/s, would give us massive clues as to pathology and treatments.

    Instead of facing up to reality and digging deep for answers insult is added to injury with constant denials, witchhunts and ridiculing of victims. And platitudes.
     
    leela, sianrecovery, Jammy88 and 3 others like this.
  20. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    965
    Colorado
    Kina said "I have to wonder why is all this anti-vax stuff consistently posted on Phoenix Rising as we are a site for ME/CFS."

    I'm not "anti-vax" -- I'm pro-truth and pro-choice.

    Do you disregard or disbelieve that many members of Phoenix Rising say they got CFS from a vaccination?

    And that there is a Federal program that pays victims of vaccination damages, which program, within the last year or two, paid a child and parents who proved to the Feds that the child got autism because of the vaccinations? This program pays damages to several hundred sufferers per year. This is taxpayer-paid insurance for the drug producers. With that in place they can disregard safety concerns and focus on profit-making. Mercury is added to vaccines so that they won't have to be refrigerated -- a selling point for vaccines in countries where refrigeration is not readily available. It isn't needed in countries where refrigeration is available but the vaccine makers don't want to make it two ways.

    I'm opposed to the idea that it's OK if we hurt you "for your own good" and that immunocompromised persons must risk their health and sometimes their lives so that others may live better with "herd immunity."

    To stereotype and dismiss people like me as "anti-vax" is insulting and incorrect. I want the drug companies, care givers and the government to tell the truth about what's in vaccines and what the risks are.

    I had a friend who was a nurse. She took her child to be vaccinated but asked whether the vaccine had thimerasol in it. The nurse giving the vaccine said "Oh, they don't put that in any of them anymore." My friend picked up the bottle and read the label. The label said it had thimerasol. At that point my friend had to decide whether to accept mercury being injected into her child or for the child to be banned from attending school. As a nurse she had already seen devastating vaccine reactions in other children so she ended up home schooling, something she never imagined she would do.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page