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Neutrophil numbers increased with Lithium

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by heapsreal, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Lithium (as lithium carbonate) is an unexpensive drug, widely used in psychiatry for over 50 years in treatment of mood instability (bipolar disorder) and as an adjunct to antidepressants. Hematological effects of neutrophilia and increased circulating CD34+ cells of marrow origin have long been known. Lithium was at the center of hematological investigations in the 1980s, but no definitive use in hematology has yet emerged. We review evidence that lithium increases G-CSF and augments G-CSF effects. We suggest possible therapeutic uses of lithium in neutropenia. In bone marrow transplantation, preharvest lithium-assisted hematopoietic stem cell mobilization may be useful as well.
    http://www.jleukbio.org/content/85/1/20.full

    Thought this might be of interest to many of us with neutropenia as a possible treatment option. Unsure if the same thing occurs with the supplement lithium orotate??

    cheers!!!
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  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Going to be a lab rat again. In the past i tried to order lithium orotate from iherb to see if it would help sleep etc but they wouldnt ship it to australia because of some of our stupid import regulations. But i found that biovea supplement company sell lithium orotate so i have placed an order and we will see if my neutrophils come up with this. There seems to be plenty of studies on prescription lithium used for neutropenia but not alot of orotate although there a blogs/forums from people saying it did for them. If it works great and if it helps sleep and improves mood etc like they say it does well then thats a bonus and if increasing my neutrophils gets rid of my sinusitis and i dont have to use antibiotics well then that would be the ants pants.

    There is a treatment for neutropenia but its only indicated for cancer patients etc and if used off label costs $1000 an injection which is required weekly for a certain time period. So if my $25 bottle of lithium orotate works then i have saved myself a few thousand, not that i would have bought it anyway, but save me some money on antibiotics, headache pills and tissues.

    cheers!!!
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  3. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    Makes one wonder if the actual benefits of lithium for psychiatric disorders could actually be linked to it assisting it helping underlying/latent infections? I recall a while back some evidence being publish about the potential link of schizophrenia and infections in early childhood, we also all know too well about the latent infections that are floating around in the whole population; do they also not become latent in bone marrow?

    I have thought about trying it myself on a few occasions, simply for the potential in improving mood, it is also one of the most recommended and well regarded treatments for mood disorders over on the logecity forum. Wonder why it does not seem to be regularly prescribed these days? Not a profit making designer drug?

    Let us know how you get on, very interested.
    heapsreal and taniaaust1 like this.
  4. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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  5. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Thanks for this thread. My white blood cell count is often "just" within normal range (right on border at times) due to my neutrophils being just within range (eg normal is 2.0 - 8.0 .. mine are usually in the 2 range eg 2.1 or even just 2) , they'd been that low for over 7 years. Ive been taking lithium orotate for a year probably now, maybe a bit longer, since a hair test showed I had extremely low level in my body of lithium compared to the normal, it may of been none at all showing on my test for me. In my blood test results this year my neutrophils have been higher, for the first time in the 3 range range actually almost 4 which really had surprised me (almost double to what they had been).

    Anyway, so Im thinking there is something in this. I'd been about to stop taking the lithium orotate as it hasnt helped my symptoms any, but now that I think it is actualy doing something physiologically, maybe I shouldnt.

    Thanks

    ps. I think Ive been buying my lithium orotate throu iherb all the time Ive been getting it. I'll check on that thou but im fairly sure that is where Ive been getting it from. Ive been taking the Doctors Best brand one.
    cigana, Lala and heapsreal like this.
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Thanks for that tania. Thats good to know.
    Ghost gum I watched a utube clip of dr Peterson where he said in a study they found a high rate of hhv6 in acute schizophrenia episodes. So there maybe something to lithium infections and psych conditions? ??
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  7. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    It is anecdotal but there appears to be enough evidence to suggest they could play a role, I was looking under the 'causes of schizophrenia' wiki page after I posted before and there is a whole section there on infections, several are mentioned as well as autoimmunity, and how many autoimmune conditions present with psychiatric/psychological symptoms?

    There is quite a scary story here of one girls experience with a more severe autoimmune condition,

    http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/12/au...nations-lifestyle-health-medical-mystery.html

    Unravelling many psychiatric conditions seems like trying to unravel ME/CFS, so many potential cofactors, would not be surprised though in years to come there ends up be some overlapping similarities.
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    They can all be cure with intense exercise though. We should put SW in a padded cell with a dozen or so of those patients for him to cure. hehehe
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  9. Lala

    Lala Senior Member

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    taniaaust1 and heapsreal like this.
  10. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    I come across this phenomenon alot, and it's only one possible cause of neutropenia, but I'm bringing it up anyway.

    Copper deficiency is a frequent cause of low neutrophils. It can happen in cases of dietary restriction, malabsorption, chelation treatments, chemotherapy, and from high dosages of zinc, molybdenum, etc.

    Copper is constroversial because it can easily be toxic in excess, but it's necessary. ( Recently, I was getting toenail fungus and headaches. I was taking zinc without copper. 15 mgs. I stopped the zinc, and sought foods with copper, got better.)

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17236184
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  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Lithium orotate didn't increase my neutrophils. Im now seeing if non flushing niacin helps plus im now also off valcyte which was probably causing neutropenia? ?
  12. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    how much LO were you taking ? I took it when I was on Valcyte, my neutrophil levels did not drop while I was on the LO.
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I was taking 5mg twice a day.
  14. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    @heapsreal, I have bad news about my niacinamide trial. My neutrophils dropped a fair bit more on my last labs unfortunately. If the Valcyte drops them even more, it'll be bad news all around. So it does not look like niacinamide at 1000 mg twice a day for a month was enough to help my neutrophil problem.
  15. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Interesting Ema, save me money on buying more niacin. i think valcyte has a stronger effect on bone marrow suppression then we would like. Might be why valcyte is only used for 2-3 months in other illnesses.

    Mid year when i stopped valcyte i relapsed after about 8-10weeks, when i restarted valcyte it got me back to where i was before stopping valcyte within 2-4 weeks. Im thinking if i have a relapse that maybe i just need to do a 2-4 week valcyte treatment. Thats how herpes 1 and 2 are treated with antivirals. I guess its then about how to pick up on the symptoms of viral reactivation. for me the intense fatigue returned with bad headaches as well as the glands in the neck becoming painful, so if this happens im going to do a 2week course??

    Maybe those of us who have been sick for a long time need an initial long course of valcyte 6-12months and then if relapse occurrs then short courses of valcyte to treat the reactivations??

    Not long ago there was something posted by either montoya or peterson where they used as more intense treatment course of valcyte but it was only a short period of time like 6-8 weeks?? From what my doctor has told me, resistence to these antivirals takes along time and is very different to abx resistence, so i wonder if the short multiple courses of valcyte could help us avoid side effects like neutropenia and liver issues??

    I found the info on short courses of valcyte http://simmaronresearch.com/tag/valganciclovir/
    Long-Term Antiviral Treatment Provides Hope
    The good news…Is that antiviral drugs improve the severe neurological symptoms, including dysfunction and long-term fatigue, suffered by a certain group of patients with CFS. Dr. Peter Medveczky
    Two treatment regimes, a short-term regime (900 mg/valganciclovir 2x’s/day) lasting 3 weeks and a longer term (900 mg/valganciclovir 2x’s/day for first three weeks then 450 mg twice daily for three weeks or more) lasting greater than or equal to six weeks. The short-term treatment had no effect on viral load (U100 RNA) or symptoms while the long-term treatment eliminated both. A blood test five weeks after the end of the treatment for one patient, however, indicated the virus was back in full force.


    cheers!!
    Ema likes this.
  16. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Pity it dont help you. Have long were you on it for? I didnt test to see how my body was responding to it till I'd been on it for a year (so it could of been something which improved very slowly).
  17. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Probably about 3 months, maybe the valcyte overpowers the lithium orotate?? Im off the valcyte so see if neutrophils go up??
  18. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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