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Needing a high dose of 5MTHF eventually ??

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Milford, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Milford

    Milford

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    I am doing pretty well in terms of having gotten lithium levels up! and surviving the detox reactions and metal dumping..... Which has been more than unpleasant. I had to back down to a dose of MTHF of around 200mcg every other day and then increase VERY slowly. This has taken about a year. I am still detoxing, and still have daily issues with Potassium low, but it is much more manageable.

    As well as C677T ++, I have ++ s for some of the genes to do with Folate transport and Folate receptors..... So I am wondering what impact this might have on the dose of 5MTHF that I will eventually need ? My MCV has come down from 108 but has stuck at 101. Anyone had to eventually be on a maintenance dose of, say, 5 mg or so ? I am currently at 1mg twice a day.

    The half moons on a couple of my fingers have come back..... not seen them for 20+ years !!
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Hi Milford. I've just worked my way up to 10mg. I've increased 100-200mcg every day or 2, depending upon my symptom return. This last increase was after a week, so I hope I'm getting close to my optimal dose. I'm fortunate to have a very small set of symptoms that are reliable indicators (acne on face, outbreak on back of neck, or scalp, hair loss). Before I understood, I classed these as "detox", and lost handfuls of hair a year ago. Now my path has been easy, with very little extra K+ needed along the way. Best to you, ahmo
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Star-Anise Hmmm. I got this in my inbox, but it doesn't appear on the thread...

    I only understood some months ago that for years, my worst symptoms in terms of getting around, were K+ deficiency. I took K+ in those days, but never enough. Then I started needing big doses w/ adding Mfolate...rapid heart, sort of breathlessness, irritated. Once I was underway with regularly increasing my folate doses, this became less of a problem, partly because I was aware enough to act quickly. But I also discovered that if I increased my folate and then felt irritable, runny eyes...generally at night, bedtime or awakening...I could put a B12 under my gum and go to sleep, waken w/ no bad symptoms. It's been pretty much a breeze since then. :cool:

    I have to add in here, I have ...never felt so good?... never felt better?....in almost all parameters, though I have no stamina re "being in the world". I'm just coming up to 11 years of disability/being disabled/being an invalid. Only 2 years ago I uncovered my lifelong gluten and dairy intolerances. Six months following that I began to understand that I was intolerant to sulfur and histamines; a year ago I was working w/ my genetic defects. And a year ago I overcame my fears and jumped into Freddd's Protocol.

    I was very fearful at first, as I kept reading Rich's injunctions re these high doses are particular to Fred's idiosyncracies. But, I'd been working with Rich's SMP for a couple years, best as I could understand it. I had no knowledge of these forums, just the SMP I'd printed out in my searching. I could barely comprehend it. Those supps never worked for me. Now, I'm back in life. I'm no longer a survivor lurching from crisis to crisis. I added many supps, particularly minerals, before I started the protocol. Including lithium, per Amy Yasko. All of these together have totally changed my interiority. I have a quite mind for the first time in my life. I'm not jumping out of my skin, as I did to a small extent early in my life, but which almost drove me to suicide throughout 2011. I'm hoping the cognitive impairments are temporary, but, hey...I can write this, and without my arms freaking out.

    I just decided it's time for me to learn about folate yesterday. I started w/ Wikipedia. It really scared me, retrospectively. I've clearly been folate/B12 deficient most/all my life. I was vegetarian for 30 years, which didn't help. Although my macrobiotic diet kept me away from a lot of folic acid in breads.

    I even went to the Deplin website, wondering if I might get onto an rx version. I was knocked out to read there that Deplin is not considered a drug, because it is a medical food.
    I guess we should be glad about this, because it must be what enables us to get supps w/ no hassle. Anyway, I'm ranting here. I'm just saying that I absolutely recognize the primacy of taking this whole quartet of supps, along with an unfortunate array of others, in sustaining a quality of life. Blessings, ahmo
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Hi,
    I am in a similar situation. C677T+/+, high serum Hcy, CFS-like symptoms for many years, recently started on active folate and B12.
    Currently I can take 800-1200mcg but with the highest dose I am starting to see detox-like symptoms, pretty rough ones. Could be detox, could be paradoxical deficiency... very difficult to tell which is which, and in any case I guess the answer to both is going slow and don't overdo it.

    I am not sure about the maintenance dose but I guess everyone is a little different, so it will probably depend on your needs of folate to function properly. What were your detox symptoms?
    Do you also have high homocysteine?
     
    Milford likes this.
  5. Milford

    Milford

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    Thank you... That must be really helpful, having a couple of symptoms that you seem to able to relate to dosage. How much b12 are you taking with this ?
    Has your MCV changed as you have increased your dose ?
     
  6. Milford

    Milford

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    No, my Homocysteine was actually low.....4.5 I think. But I had CBS up regulation and BHMT 2, 4 and 8 all++, so that exacerbates the cbs drain...... Least ways it think that is what happened. I added TMG and that produced a detox.... For me this is a fluey feeling and a strong metallic taste in my mouth.
    I don't understand what you mean by paradoxical deficiency..... Is it that methylation is started up... But that uses up the folate and then you become low again . If that were so, wouldn't backing off make that worse rather than better? if backing off makes you feel better then it is likely because of too much toxicity ??? Just theorizing....... No idea until I use myself as a Guinea Pig again.
     
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @ Milford
    My homocysteine, when I got it checked a couple years ago, was high normal, nothing anyone was concerned about. Least of all me, who knew nothing...Anyway, re MCV, I just don't use lab tests. They haven't done me any real favors in the past.

    My B12 moves up in tandem w/ folate. I just increased to 10mg MB12 + 7.5 AdB12. I use self-testing to work w/ my body re supps. I began this at the time I was becoming unwell, so I've had a long time to learn to trust the system, and I strongly urge all chronically unwell people to just jump into this and create a communication system with your body.

    Re Paradoxical Insufficiency, I thought this was a particularly good thought about it from @whodathunkit yesterday:
     
    Snowdrop likes this.
  8. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    @whodathunkit

    I tried clicking on the bottom link to the post that Ahmo quoted. It doesn't seem to work.
    Thanks for writing the post though. Helps me think it through.
     
  9. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    yeah, doesn't work for me, either. :bang-head:
     
  10. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    @ahmo
    Funny story, I saw K+ and in my brain fog thought Vitamin K (which I recently discontinued) & asked the question, and then almost instantaneously thought - ah she means potassium, lol :) then I deleted my post.
    This, however, was very useful, so thank-you for responding anyhow! This is exactly what I'm feeling. I think I also read *caution* high doses of methylfolate, methylB12 posts, & was a bit scared about dosing huge too. But I have got some responses from others on forum here indicating that is the only way they were able to overcome weight gain/edema, so up I go! :)
     
  11. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  12. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    Thanks the link works now.
     

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