Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
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Nausea and Today's A&E experience

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by erin, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    Since Saturday I wake up with severe nausea. It gets worse after breakfast and gets better until 5pm ish. Then it settles and I am exhausted I go to bed at 10-11 pm and sleep well all night. Then wake up am 6 -7 ish same thinghappens.

    There's also bad indigestion; very very gassy especially in the stomach and then in the intestines too. But today it was worse.

    Last night I had courgette gratin. I've noticed that recently I'm not digesting dairy well. So I went and bought lastase drops. I used this first time before the gratin. It was good had no problems and woke up OK'ish. But then I had a sliver of cheese on my toast ( I eat gluten free) and I was in pain and the nausea. Not saying it's definitely the cheese. Just thinking.

    Couln't suffer anymore and I ended up in A&E. I was given an injection of dramamine which didn't worked. Then they did a very routine simple blood test, unfortunately could not give me a copy but it was completely normal. No infection or anemia etc was seen.

    I recently recovered from pneumonia and I had the same nausea then. I can tell that I got it back. The night sweat and weird depression negative thoughts are back and the back pain.

    So in the end they gave me an electrolyte serum with mixed vitamin B in it. It made a huge difference. I still have slight nausea and more back pain but it is much better. Also my head cleared with it too.

    Any thoughts on this weird nausea I'm having?

    I feel so unwell recently I can't cope, any suggestions?

    I made an appointment with the regular GP tomorrow. She's good she'll send me to another big hospital for further investigation. Any suggestions on this?

    Thanks already to whomever suggest anything. Appreciate to any information, I'm desperate.
     
  2. confetti11

    confetti11 Senior Member

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    I would look at that electrolyte serum making you feel better as a major clue.

    As someone who's dealt with varying degrees of nausea off and on for 17 years, I deal with electrolyte issues from time to time. Once, about six years ago, symptoms like you describe drove me to the ER three times in two weekends.

    I see a great doctor who thinks outside the box, and these are some of the things he told me to do:
    1. Limit water intake. For me, I was washing out my electrolytes by drinking a lot of water due to poor adrenal function. It's counter intuitive to some to drink less water when dehydrated, but it was key for me. I was limited to about 50oz per day.
    2. Drink some tomato juice with a tsp of salt in it in the morning.
    3. Take supplements with potassium and magnesium.

    Also, I continued to have pretty severe nausea off and on for a short while after this incident in 2011. My doctor explained to me that even after your electrolyte levels bounce back in your blood, it takes a while for the cells of your body to achieve the same effects. So, I continued to feel pretty bad for a while.

    If you can run these ideas by your doctor, maybe they would help you too. A key part of this though is having impaired adrenal function. If you have a doctor who isn't open minded about this, you may get nowhere.
     
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  3. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    Thank you @confetti11 are you free off nausea since then?

    The other thing is the indigestion, it's like I have no enzymes to digest. I'm worried about pancreas issues. Very scary.
     
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @erin - your nausea, pain and indigestion could be due to gallbladder problems. http://www.everydayhealth.com/gallbladder/guide/symptoms/
    https://www.floridahospital.com/gall-bladder-disease/symptoms-and-signs-gallbladder-disease

    If you have gallstones or if your gallbladder is sluggish, high fat foods like cheese are the worst thing you can eat and can trigger symptoms. Also, gallstones can cause pancreatitis and a major symptom of that is pain and nausea, although I think it's most common to have vomiting as well. https://pancreasfoundation.org/pati...s/acute-pancreatitis-diagnosis-and-treatment/

    I'm not an expert on this by any means; my brother-in-law recently had a very bad bout of vomiting and pain that went on for over a week. It took 2 weeks for the doctors to figure out he has a large ulcer; they had considered pancreatitis but that turned out to be negative.

    My gallbladder was sluggish many years ago. My symptoms were feeling very full after eating not that much, bloating and burping after meals, loss of appetite, didn't tolerate high fat foods (like cheese), had trouble with meat which is hard to digest, food felt like it just sat in stomach and didn't get digested, though I didn't have nausea per se, and just mild abdominal pain. My chiropractor who does muscle testing found the problem and gave me AF Beta Food by Standard Process, which helped a lot. I also learned I was low in hydrochloric acid which is why food just sat in my stomach, and started taking betaine HCL with pepsin and this helped a lot also.

    If you are having trouble with your gallbladder but your symptoms are not acute, doctors can easily miss it. You might try cutting out fried foods, cheese and other high fat foods and meat, and instead try vegetables, fruit, chicken, rice, which are easy to digest and see if your symptoms improve. Lemon juice is also very good, it's cleansing and can help with digestion. I would say to ask your doctor about your gallbladder but if your symptoms are not acute, the doctors generally won't pick it up.

    You may need HCL - many of us are deficient in stomach acid. The best kind also has pepsin to aid in digestion protein. A simple at home test to check your stomach acid is to dissolve 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda in a glass of water, and drink it on an empty stomach. If you don't burp within 2 minutes, it can be an indication of low stomach acid.

    If your stomach acid is low or your digestion is not working properly for whatever reason, it makes sense that the electrolyte serum with B vitamins would make you feel better, because you would basically be malnourished, because you're not digesting food properly.

    BTW, my chiropractor helped me when no doctor could, and I believe he saved my gallbladder.
     
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  5. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Cheese making things worse is also a clue.

    Suggestive of a lack of enzymes to break down fats so try some pancreatin enzymes, particularly if your stool looks greasy.

    There is also a suggestion of autonomic dysfunction involvement which can result in sluggish gallbladder function, abdominal pain and nausea with slowed gastric motility and the night sweats from sudomotor dysfunction, all of which can have ties with vagus nerve dysfunction.
     
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  6. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    She should refer you to a gastroenterologist.
     
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  7. antherder

    antherder a.k.a. Princess Dauer, Nematode Nation

    Does she know you were given a fluoroquinolone for your pneumonia?

    From what I've read, it appears that symptoms/side effects can be delayed, so the connection isn't always made that they may be antibiotic related.
     
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  8. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    Thanks for all the replies,

    @Mary I don't eat anything but a slice of gluten free toast whole day yesterday and today. I can't eat. I'm very nauseous but I don't vomit.

    @kangaSue autonomic dysfunction makes sense.

    @CFS_for_19_years she's taken a lot of blood and I think she will refer me to gastro tomorrow

    @antherder yes she now knows I was on avelock.

    I am exhausted, can not eat, nausea is so bad.
     
  9. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    I haven't given my B12 injection for a long time, the only thing helped at the A&E was electrolytes with Bmix vits.

    Could this be a sudden drop at B12 levels? My last reading was OK in May. Almost 2 months away and I stopped my sublingual spray. Could it be just this?

    Should I spray B12 now? I'm so scared to eat anything, take anything as I can't digest nothing.

    I had a slice of gluten free bread with honey brushed very thinly and quarter of an apple. I am able to tolerate honey somehow. I keep drinking ginger tea. Maybe some chicken juice tonight. I'll try I am so hungry but the idea of food makes me sick.
     
  10. confetti11

    confetti11 Senior Member

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    I'm free of the severe nausea I had over those two weekends years ago. I still deal with nausea otherwise, although not always that severe. For me, I believe it's adrenal and neurotransmitter related.
     
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  11. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    A long time ago when I had nausea and was hungry a nurse recommended drinking warm flat Coke - it worked for me. I think you can also buy cola syrup at most drug stores.

    In case you're wondering what's in it, this may surprise you:
    http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Make-Cola-Syrup/
     
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  12. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    The cola syrup looks delicious! I'll try to make it when I have some energy.

    I squirted some B12 in the end and nausea is tolerable now. I had boiled chicken juice, felt good. Then I've tried some of the chicken. But I could not swallow it. I spit it out. I crave for sweet things. I had a very dry gluten free biscuit. It felt OK. I might have couple of cherries soon.

    I am definitely better, not good enough to eat a proper meal as yet. But idea of food is not revolting and I feel hunger now. It probably is the B12 was far too low? I'll see the test result tomorrow.

    Of course, I am very optimistic all of a sudden that I could sip some chicken juice. We'll see how I wake up in the morning.

    I feel so sick every morning since past 5 days. If I didn't have menopause I would think that I was pregnant!

    No wonder, first thing I take in the mornings is the synthetic thyroxine supplement which has lactose in it. Yukkkk.
     
  13. Pendergast

    Pendergast Spain

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    Hi everybody! :hug:

    Chronic and severe nausea is one of the most unbareable symptoms for me. They are so hard than even make me doubt if I'm well diagnosed with CFS or maybe I have something else although I know the work of Dr. Chia.

    I feel that despairing and invalidating sensation, every day at every moment, during 18 years. 6.570 days....without stop...:confused: It's just in the mouth of my stomach and they are worst in the mornings when I wake up and after meals. :cry:

    I have seen several gastroenterologists and gone through lots of test ( I can't extend about this right know, here is too late).

    I have tried a lot of drugs and suplements, diets, even the Ondansetron that is used for the Chemo patient's nauseas if I'm right....

    Nothing worked.....:cautious:the only thing that gives me some relief is the capsaicin, from the hot chilis! One of the many endoscopies Drs. made me, showed an excess of plasmatic cells and mast cells, indicating inflammation. :thumbdown:

    Capsaicine seems to act like an anesthetic stuff. I know this could sound paradoxical and in other cases it could be harmful but for me, it has been the most effective and cheap remedy not to end totally crazy at this point. It doesn't quit the nausea, but it is less intense.

    Another think that seems to help a bit ( but have nothing to do with capsaicine) is the Coke! Maybe due its carbonated water?, I don't know...o_O

    I keep on searching for an answer for this stomach nightmare, we discarded Coeliac Disease, food intolerances, gastroparesis, H.Pylori, Whipple disease and EBV in stomach biopsies.... Sadly we didn't search for Coxsackie and I have no more strength to keep on doing tests because I'm almost bedbound.

    The last thing I made was an AngioTC, searching for Aortomesenteric syndrome or the Median arcuate syndrome ( both vascular stuffs) but it seems everything is ok ( I haven't seen the images yet..).

    So I can only give you my best empathy and the little bit strength I havn't lost yet @erin and hope you can find quickly what is provoking you this awful sensation :thumbsup:

    A big hug!! :hug:
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  14. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    I second this. It works for me also. I usually sip on flat lemonade but the odd time I use coke. It really helps to get strength and appetite back quicker.

    Hope things improve soon for you @erin
     
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  15. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    @Pendergast Did you have a Gastric Emptying Study in ruling out gastroparesis? And was it a 4 hour study, the gold standard?

    One normal emptying study doesn't discount having gastroparesis as not only does your gastric emptying vary by the day but it can vary from hour to hour. A lot of tests are stopped prematurely at the 2 hour mark too if things look normal up to that point but a delay can occur in the third or fourth hour making for an abnormal study overall.

    They will often label it as Functional Dyspepsia (FD) if the emptying study is in the normal range but for all intents and purposes, all other symptoms parralel those of gastroparesis. Sulpiride is a med more commonly used for FD in Europe, part of it's action is to increase blood flow (to the bowel too). I actually use a nitrate which helps with gastroparesis. Supplements that boost nitric oxide can be a helpful alternative and I know of a small handful of people that finds Viagra or one of its derivatives helps for either FD or gastroparesis.

    It's interesting that you find carbonated drinks helpful too, I know of a lot of people with confirmed gastroparesis who similarly find carbonated drinks help with their motility.

    Any idea what the angle is of your sma/aorta junction in the Angio TC study. Also have the results checked for any sign of left renal compression (Nutcracker Syndrome) because a reduced sma/aorta angle can also cause left renal vein compression and that can cause wide ranging symptoms that don't always correlate with classic Nutcracker Syndrome. A common symptom of this in guys is a testicular ache.
     
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  16. Pendergast

    Pendergast Spain

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    Hey @kangaSue !! Thank you so much for your knowledgeable and detailed answer!! :love:

    I will try to reply some things even if I don´t have as much knowledges as you. (and sorry @erin if with this I´m deviating your post :oops:)

    Yes I had one and no, it didn´t last 4 hours. As you say, it was stopped at 2h if I remember it right. But I had a Gastrointestinal manometry too (that was a pretty unpleasant test, they introduced a catheter until my jejunum which was connected to a computer and measured my peristalsis even while eating. It lasted approximately 5 hours). It came out normal so it should discard gastroparesis but, as you say, maybe the result could be different another day....who knows!

    Yes, that´s the label I have, along with IBS (they like labels a lot :lol:). But yes, the symptoms parrarel with gastroparesis so maybe I should repeat some studies but now I´m not able to do so.

    Interesting! I tried Sulpiride for some time and I think something was doing but can´t remember exactly (it was long time ago and I was medicated with so many psychoactive drugs that in the end I decided not to take any more!).
    No idea about nitrate (I will check it) and I only tried Viagra once, out of curiosity. Maybe I should try it again? At least if it doesn´t work for the FD I will have a nice time :redface: (Seriously, I will pass this sugestions to my doc, thanks:thumbsup:)

    Sadly not, I´m trying to find it out because the radiologist and doctors said the study was ok but I want to make sure and know the angle (maybe they even didn´t check it out, who knows! :cautious:)

    Ok I will pass it to my doc too. No testicular ache fortunately (and praying not to have it :rofl:).

    Hugs and thank you again for your time and effort.:thumbsup:
     
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  17. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    I went to a private hospital and spend money on an endoscopy.

    The result is erythematosus endoscopic gastritis.

    I have erythematous mucosa and edema in the antrum and the corpus. No evidence of H. Pylori.

    A biposi taken for determine coeliac disease. I was precribed nexium 40 mg and tranko buscas. Should I take them, they have horrendous side effects?

    Then my adventure continued by the cardio. I have now a holter on me in 40C heat.

    I traveled 3 hours today in a taxi and on the way back I just wanted to die. I feel so low. And I have to go back to hand the holter and see the results tomorrow. The doppler report mentions minimal MI and pericardial fat pad.

    And lastly my due B12 result is so high!

    It is 880! And I still feel shite!

    Is it because I have an undetectable cancer or the mixed vitamin B contained B12 (15mcg) in A&E 2 days ago responsible for this? Grrrrr more panic instead of a relief after all that traveling, effort and money spend.

    Is it me being a hypocondriac?
     
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  18. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Stopping the test too early makes for an inconclusive result just the same as if you happen to vomit up some of the test meal, they should know better in this day and age!

    While all interconnected, any section of the stomach, small intestine and large bowel can have impaired motility independent of the other parts so even a slow bowel transit time can be a cause of nausea and vomiting from increased intraabdominal pressures. A Smart Pill test to measure pH and pressures throughout the GI tract is a good test to have.

    Any test is best done when you are symptomatically at your worst but not easy to coordinate it all.
    A lot of the same meds used for gastroparesis are worth trying with FD too.
    http://www.digestivedistress.com/motility-rx
    http://www.digestivedistress.com/novel-rx
    I mentioned nitrates and Viagra because it was a nitrate that has made the most difference to my gastroparesis symptoms. A Doppler Ultrasound found an elevated SMA flow velocity but the follow up CT Angiogram found no occlusions but there was a narrow SMA angle although that wasn't disclosed in the report at the time. It was discovered during a colonoscopy that my bowel had ischemic damage consistent with mesenteric ischemia so concluded I have Non-occlusive mesenteric ischemia (NOMI).

    A lot of the medical literature alludes to NOMI being grossly under-diagnosed in a lot of cases of idiopathic gastric dysmotility, in large part because there is no one test for it and there is generally no pathology that shows up in blood tests until such time as the bowel becomes necrotic if the blood flow falls below a critical level. You will know when that occurs, it causes excrutiating pain which is usually mistaken for Pancreatitis which is not surprising because Pancreatitis also causes intestinal ischemia.
    I asked my doctor to do a review Angio TC and specify on the test request form that we wanted to know the SMA angle as I could see on the previous study that the SMA angle was quite narrow but they still didn't take a measurement, just mentioned in the report this time around that it was more acute than normal, unchanged from the previous result!
     
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  19. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    No, it's very normal and right to be concerned about your health when you are not well @erin :hug:
     
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  20. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    It's often just a benign inflammatory response or can be an autoimmune issue. Did they do blood tests for parietal cell and intrinsic factor antibodies too?

    Nexium is also a powerful anti-inflammatory so could clear things up and is safe to use for the majority of people. Best practice is to do a pH manometry test to see if excess stomach acid is the problem but is seldom done by doctors, they just try you meds instead. Personally, I'd start with safer still option of a H2 blocker first, something like ranitidine and they also have anti-inflammatory properties.
     
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