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Nausea and Loss of Appetite - Remedial Solutions Please

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by nomad, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. nomad

    nomad Anyone interested in a London Support group?

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    I'm on the paleo/gaps diet. It was going very well, until I got hit by a strong wave of nausea a month ago.

    Since then, total loss of appetite and I've only been able to nibble salad leaves and cheese. Have lost way too much weight and muscle tissue. Need to reintroduce fats, protein rich stews, and vegetables again.

    I don't mind so much the muscle and weight loss, but I do need to get the fats in. Any suggestions.
    rosie26 likes this.
  2. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Nuts? Lots of nuts.

    When I get all nauseous and unable to eat, I use one of the nutrient drink mixes, (Complan) which are easy to get down and contain a fair amount of good stuff, but I don't know if your diet would allow for such processed stuff.
  3. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    Does olive oil on your salad go down okay? Seeds? Avocado?

    Are you still getting actively nauseous, or is it more of a carry-over aversion to food from what happened to you before?

    I got really bad waves of nausea from trying to increase my protein intake. For me, it looks like it was probably related to my gallbladder (which apparently just can't handle much meat or oils anymore, though it was fine before my bad crash). It took me forever to make the connection that it was food-related and not just one of my ME symptoms, though. Do you have any idea what was responsible for your nausea?
  4. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @nomad
    I started a month ago with actual sickness, it started 6hrs after eating some walnuts, they re-emerged at 2.30am.....

    Since then I've felt constant nausea accompanied by more dizziness at times, don't know what caused it. My ME doc advised me to take some more Betaine, which I had stopped, it seems to have eased it, maybe a stomach bacteria that needs bashing with more acid - I don't know - its so difficult isn't it. I have been diagnose with strep so she's also prescribed me some a/biotics. Whether I take them - I'm undecided - maybe cause more problems than they solve. Hope it improves for you.

    Skinned chicken thighs with fat left on stewed gently with veg,(washed and bagged ready) or frozen mixed veg, very tasty and little effort when you don't have energy.

    Spoonful of coconut butter, organic olive oil drizzled on salad leaves
    Advocados, (I love them.)
  5. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    Isn't it dangerous NOT to take antibiotics if you have strep?

    GG
  6. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @ggingues
    mine is a chronic condition rather than a full on infection, that's why I'm reluctant to take just one course of a/biotics.
  7. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    @maryb

    I am wary of walnuts. Many, years ago I bought a huge packet of walnuts and ate about 5-6 pieces each day for nearly a week and I noticed by about the 3rd day I was feeling nauseas and really quite unwell, it took me a couple of more days if I remember rightly to realize it was the walnuts.

    There is something in walnuts that seems to be hard on the stomach. I read somewhere that nuts inhibit a digestive enzyme - don't know if that is true but it feels that way when I eat walnuts over a period of days.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  8. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    @nomad

    For the times when it is hard to eat. The food replacement drink "complan" is very good. It will give you some fat content and nutrition. I wished I had thought to take in my severe years.

    I don't know how you are with sugar - but I would sip on a half a glass of lemonade, many times it has lifted me out of a very weak patch enough to get me stronger and eating again - as an emergency measure. I know others won't agree with that - but it has worked for me at times.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  9. nomad

    nomad Anyone interested in a London Support group?

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    @Sparrow at the moment Ive stopped all fats including salad dressing. They make me feel sick. It is active nausea and I've suspected gallbladder problems previously, but hadn't made the connection with the current wave of nausea.

    What are the treatment options if it is gallbladder?

    @rosie26 complan is a good option but at the moment I'm off milk as it feeds my inflammation.
    rosie26 likes this.
  10. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @rosie26
    thanks for that - yes maybe it was the walnuts - whatever it was it totally threw me off balance. Shame - I'm trying to reduce the meat and eat nuts and this happens. I can't face them again anyway. That's what happens when something makes you sick isn't it?
    rosie26 likes this.
  11. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    Oh, interesting, never heard of that before, but it seems that nearly anything is possible!

    GG
  12. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    To be honest, I don't know if there are any good options or not. Like everything, there are a pile of alternative tips that may or may not have any credible basis at all. Nothing like that seemed to make enough of a dent that I didn't still get nauseous (although lemon juice did seem to help sometimes). Once I figured out the issue, it was diet changes that helped most for me.

    Though, of course, your issue could be something else entirely. I'm sure not everybody getting nauseous has the same problems as me.

    If it is gallbladder, it seems like most doctors are happy to either leave it alone or cut it out, depending on how bad the problem is. There is a lot of familiarity with gallstones, but not much with other things that can go wrong with gallbladders. I also have to say that I'm not 100% certain that's the issue for me. My doctor suggested that it seemed likely. It does seem suggestive that cutting back my meat and fried foods solved the problem, and that it reappears if I eat too much of those things. It took a long time to figure out, because almost every meal seemed to make me nauseous, but almost every meal had some form of oils, fats, meat, etc.

    Is even a tiny bit making you queasy? I was lucky in that I don't have the problem so long as I limit certain problem foods. I only eat meat in tiny little portions, and usually only once a day, or I start to have the nausea waves again, but I can eat those tiny little bits. I seem to have a certain level of oils and meats that I can tolerate in a given time period, and if I go over it (either all in one meal, or with a bit too much at every meal), my body lets me know in no uncertain terms and takes a while to tolerate them again.

    In case it helps any, I've also found that certain foods are more or less likely to cause problems (meat is really bad, whereas I can get away with milk, avocados, or hummus), and it is definitely easier on my system to have any problem foods in the morning rather than at night (which is very common for gallbladder issues). My issues started after my meat and fat intake increased significantly (ironically, in an attempt to eat healthier and more balanced meals). Did you end up eating more meat/fat when you went paleo?

    Nausea is an awful symptom. I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. I hope you're able to get some relief and eat normally again soon.
  13. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    @nomad

    I have found my horrid nausea was coming from inflammation but it wasn't inflammation caused by food, it was inflammation by exertion. As soon as my muscles get activated or the heart racing via mental/emotional/physical stimulation this seems to trigger all my immune/neuro ME symptoms. I guess when the heart starts racing that is exertion on the heart muscle as well.

    I found this out when I started taking D Ribose in Nov 2012. The little bit extra energy that it provided in my muscles, lessened a bit of inflammation and I noticed that my nausea had also lessened - so it's really interesting and it tells me that I have mitochondrial issues for sure.
  14. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi, sorry I don't know much about your situation, apart from what you have written above, so I may be totally wrong, but just to say that the paleo diet made me horrifically nauseas and I lost appetite totally (didn't lose any weight though unfortunately). The only thing that helped me was re introducing some carbs, and stopping eating eggs - I was eating quite a lot of them and they seem to mess up my stomach really badly. In the end I have had to abandon the paleo entirely. I was so nauseas I couldn't even face lettuce - for some reason when I feel like this I cant cope with eating salad at all.
  15. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Yes I didn't realise this either. You have to look at your medical history. Mine was regular bouts of t tonsillitis from 13yrs old, always in times of stress in adulthood, laryngitis, boils, sticky eyes etc. Also found in stool sample. I never connected it all, it was during a recent consultation this was identified, and it all makes sense.
  16. end

    end Senior Member

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    I felt a lot like that when I began a ketogenic diet aka Dr Robert Atkins RIP

    I found it was related to an over loaded liver(high LFT's)when ever they elevate, I tend to get nauseas even just smelling fat/meat.

    nomad have you recently used ketaconazol large long term doses of paracetamol etc ?

    Btw Ginger tablets/tea can help nausea
  17. nomad

    nomad Anyone interested in a London Support group?

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    @end thats interesting, the nausea could possibly be related to the gut flora being starved of carbs. My theory is that the bad flora will take time to die off, and good flora will need re-establishing.

    Interestingly, I do find that I can eat carbs easily, but, doing so triggers feeling absolutely awful. So I'm going to stick with the low carb paleo diet. Thanks for the ginger tip, its on my list to try,

    I do want to find a solution to this, as I do want to stick the paleo diet as the difference is remarkable. Given that my stools are fatty (sorry, tmi!) bile issues cannot be ruled out. Additionally one of the issues with blocked bile ducts is horrendous anxiety, which I also have.

    Currently I subsist on cheese, and salad leaves, and whilst I've become very skinny, it's still paleo diet and I my condition is stablised. I still down some fats (coconut, flax, fish oil ) every other day mixed in with apple cider vinegar. Its disgusting, but again it helps dramatically with the inflammation, anxiety and cognition.

    I'll start experimenting with milk thistle and dandelion root for a couple of weeks, along with ginger and report back here!
    end and Crux like this.
  18. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    I discovered when I was at uni that the amount of bile we have is fairly constant and related to the fat content of our individual diet - it gets recycled.
    We can upregulate to having more if our diets start getting fattier, but it takes time.

    I would imaging we wouldn't be feeling too good a the times our bodies are trying to either up or downregulate that amount of bile. I certainly found that after a low-fat diet, I could not handle fatty stuff without feeling very sick.

    Similarly, if we reduce the fat content of our diet, the body will downregulate the amount of bile it contains. Again this takes time.
    end and Sparrow like this.
  19. nomad

    nomad Anyone interested in a London Support group?

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    @peggy-sue Thanks, this is useful, and makes a lot of sense. Any idea how long it takes the body to adjust?
  20. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    No, I'm afraid not.
    I found it interesting at the time, becuase it would explain an apparent addiction to fat in the diet - and explained why and how folk can and do eat so much "junk food".

    But it would also mean that it might just be a matter of persevering to try to increase it a little, Nomad, feeling nauseous should fade.

    I also highly recommend ginger for nausea!
    I use a diluting kind and make hot drinks with it in the evenings. It's lovely.

    But you can make ginger tea by just grating a little root into a sieve and pouring hot water over it. Sweeten with honey if you like.
    end and Iquitos like this.

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