The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
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Nature Article Uses ME/CFS to Examine The Microgenderome

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Never Give Up, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. Never Give Up

    Never Give Up Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.

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    http://www.nature.com/articles/srep19171

    Can you say, "microgenderome?"

    "The ‘microgenderome’ provides a paradigm shift that highlights the role of sex differences in the host-microbiota interaction relevant for autoimmune and neuro-immune conditions. Analysis of cross-sectional self-report and faecal microbial data from 274 patients with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) suggests that commensal gut microorganisms may play both protective and deleterious roles in symptom expression. Results revealed significant sex-specific interactions between Firmicutes(Clostridium, Streptococcus, Lactobacillus and Enterococcus) and ME/CFS symptoms (including neurological, immune and mood symptoms), regardless of compositional similarity in microbial levels across the sexes. Extending animal studies, we provide support for the microgenderome in a human clinical population. Applied and mechanistic research needs to consider sex-interactions when examining the composition and function of human microbiota."

    We've seen these two biologists, Henry Butt and Donald P. Lewis, before.

    It's great to see the ME/CFS population being used examine a larger concept, it gives the disease more gravitas while educating the reader about the disease.
     
    Avengers26, alkt, snowathlete and 9 others like this.
  2. Simon

    Simon

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    Large study (n=274), paid for largely by patients, it seems

     
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  3. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Well, assuming that the science is good, that explains why my gut can be full of Enterococcus and yet I don´t feel that bad.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  4. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Incredibly strange abstract. Have not read the full study yet.
     
    Never Give Up likes this.
  5. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Interesting article, and nice to see increased interest in ME/CFS. There is one small misconception though:

    A few months ago I became interested in the research interest in ME/CFS and wrote a program that would count pubmed articles on ME or CFS. This graph was the result:

    [​IMG]

    Much of XMRV story happend somewhere around 2009 I believe. We can clearly see an increase in interest in these years, but the number of articles never declined to pre-XMRV levels. It looks more like research interest is steadily increasing at a faster rate than before (if we connect pre-XMRV levels with current levels at least).

    Disclaimer: I'm pretty sure pubmed comments in response to an article about ME or CFS are also counted.

    PS: I checked: Detection of an Infectious Retrovirus, XMRV, in Blood Cells of Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was published in October 2009.

    PPS: if anyone is wondering, the total is 3403.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  6. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Yep, several people on this forum have been maimed by LAB probiotics.
     
  7. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Yup, they weren´t good for me either. Bifido was also associated with a increase in pain and energy problems (or whatever they called it) in males in the study, but it may not have been significant. I hope a company sees this and starts producing probiotics that take gender into account.
     
    ScottTriGuy likes this.
  8. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Hey, that gives me an idea, how about a quick poll?
     
  9. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Done! I put it in ´Symptoms-Gastrointestinal.´ Come on, come all, and vote!
     
    Never Give Up likes this.
  10. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    I'm glad about more studies with more subjects with ME/CFS.

    I believe it's going to be a lot more individualized than what they are finding, though.
    Females may be able to tolerate more lactobacillus because the vagina needs to be acidic to deter pathogens, but there are cases of overgrowth of lactobacillus infections in the vag.,although rare.

    As of now, I can't tolerate any probiotics, even bifidos., lactos., etc.
    I have a long history of very high consumption of them. (too much)
     
    Never Give Up likes this.
  11. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Tolerate more lactobacillus where?

    Please vote in my poll.
     
  12. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    I've only taken lactobacillus spp. orally.
    I've read about using lactos. vaginally for yeast infections, b.v., etc.

    I voted.
     
  13. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Interesting...thanks for voting.
     
  14. Gemini

    Gemini Senior Member

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    Excellent study, like the sample size!

    Need to re-read it to see If the results relate in any way to my recent www.ubiome.com test results.
     
  15. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    As far as I can see, results of culture based tests bear almost no relationship to those obtained by DNA sequencing and I seriously wonder if they mean much at all.

    They are responsible for a completely distorted idea of what constitutes the gut microbiota since they select for aerotolerant species. It was not until DNA-based techniques were developed that we came to realise that anaerobes outnumbered aerobes by some 10:1 and that many gut microbes were simply not culturable, hence had been previously unknown.

    The Bioscreen Australia test does try to preserve anaerobic species so is not as bad as some, but still the species selected and studied are mostly minor constituents of the gut. They are studied because the technique facilitates their selection rather than because they are necessarily important.

    I haven't yet studied the paper in detail and I like the idea of the microgenderome - plus it is always good to see studies of ME/CFS. I just can't get past my concern that the test fundamental to the study may not mean much.
     
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  16. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    alicec,

    I am no expert, but I think that this is probably a problem in all microbiome research. I know I have read about people who have sent of test kits to ubiome and american gut from the same stool and got different results. And one person, who sent ubiome two samples from the one stool that came back with different results.

    Which should be expected as the bacteria grow of what we eat and that is neither going to be evenly mixed in the the one stool nor the day, nor the week.

    What’s more researchers looking at bacteria in healthy mouse guts on a high fibre diet designed to mimic that of a healthy modern hunter gatherer found that the bacteria were not evenly distributed but similar bacteria tended to cluster together. (the mice on a standard western diet had homogeneously distributed bacteria). http://nautil.us/issue/30/identity/how-the-western-diet-has-derailed-our-evolution So at least in the gut (I don't know about the stool) you would expect widely varying ratios of bacteria in people on a high fibre diet.

    Its a fundamental problem isn't it. And I don't have an answer. But in a cargo-cultish way I am tempted to try to sculpt the parts of my microbiome that can be measured into the form or a healthy person's microbiome.

    Oh, and I should add that the Sonnenburg, the researcher quoted in the above article, considers us to be making a mistake when we consider a healthy western diet eating person's gut to be in any way ideal. Our diet is so far away from historical norms that the microbiomes of the healthy among us are probably also in some sense disordered.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  17. Mel9

    Mel9 Senior Member

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    Well done! That is very interesting
     
  18. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    That is a different kind of problem from what I was referring to and much less serious. Yes there are differences arising from sampling in the DNA based tests but we do get a fairly consistent picture from them giving a close approximation to the totality of the microbes present in the gut..

    What concerns me about the culture based tests is that they miss the vast majority of species present in the gut. We are not dealing with variation due to sampling error but technical limitations which result in a picture of an almost totally different ecosystem, one which doesn't bear much resemblance to reality.
     
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  19. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    They've made over 100 comparisons (13 symptoms each for 8 taxa).

    Yet they don't seem to have corrected their statistics for multiple comparisons - how would you correct for such in a study like this?
     
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  20. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I
    On my recent GI Effects test done in December there were no lactobacillus showing at all but previously on a stool test around 2011 my level was 4+.

    I am taking some good probiotics with LAB from Biocare and they seem to suit me.

    Pam
     

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