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'Natural' antiretrovirals?

Discussion in 'XMRV Testing, Treatment and Transmission' started by dannybex, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. froufox

    froufox Senior Member

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    Hi Forebearance,

    I agree with you about Virastop, I have tried it a few times and it has really helped with my symptoms though I was taking a much larger dose than you after I read about the research study discussed on enzymestuff.com where they found 15+ capsules a day led to the most improvements, and for some people continued even after the trial period was over.

    http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionviruses.htm

    Unfortunately at that dose it does work out to be quite expensive! Interestingly, I didnt experience much die-off like you, I just generally felt better, initially quite significantly better, but then the improvements seemed to diminish after a while. However whenever I start taking it again it always makes me feel better. I got mine from iherb.com

    Theramedix do an almost identical product called PRX...there is just a slight difference in dosage of some of the ingredients but it does work out a little bit cheaper compared to Virastop..

    http://www.theramedix.net/ccp0-prodshow/PRX120.html
  2. ariel

    ariel

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    Thanks so much Garcia.
    Yes the claims do seem quite incredible. Pretty much 100% success rate.
    I seem to be ok with adaptogens, so I think I'm going to give this a try eventually. I ordered a heap of things last week in order to follow Jonathan Campbell's protocol for a while, and only just found this info on Sutherlandia.
    Gosh the amount of supplements I take is scary! and expensive! oh well. makes me feel like I'm trying!
  3. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the info re virastop and Theramedix. They look interesting. I think I used to see people posting re getting help from Virastop but I believe that was on an autism list that I used to read.

    Maxine
  4. IntuneJune

    IntuneJune Senior Member

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    Froufox and Forebearance

    I looked at both your links Froufox and on the PRX site, the following was stated:

    "Indications:* Hypoglycemia, Hepatitis, Fungal infestation, Parasites, Liver, Skin eruptions, Osteoporosis, Acute inflammation, Kidney, Abscess, Diuretic, Anxiety syndromes, Virus Infections, Bacteria, Inflammatory conditions of the throat, nose, mouth, ear, sinus and gums. "

    That is quite a range.... you mentioned you took the Virastop which was similar and you felt better. Could you list which symptoms improved?

    Thanks, June
  5. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Thanks Forbearance--for the info on the Virastop.

    I think the Lauricidin (or monolaurin) in combo with it will be a knock out formula on the viruses. Great idea!
  6. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    I like enzymedica too but the enzymes make me way too hungry.
  7. froufox

    froufox Senior Member

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    Hi June,

    I took Virastop for about a month or so and built up the caps from 2 a day to 16-18 a day. The main benefits I experienced was a doubling in my energy and stamina and reduced inflammation in my head and clearer thinking. Also my mood was better but I guess that would fit in with the inflammation being more under control. As I built up the dosage I noticed that my energy was improving quite significantly and one week I was able to go out and about for a few days on the trot meeting up with friends and socialising, without crashing. Normally if I did manage to go out at all I would have to rest the following day at the very least.

    I also noticed that colours seemed a lot clearer and I was much more alert and aware of what was going on around me, whereas in my normal state I walk around feeling like a bit of a zombie in a kind of semiconscious state! So it really did seem to do something. Also when I went to see a crystal therapist who seems to have a gift for dowsing she said that my aura was much more normal, whereas for months it had been really wonky and lobsided with lots of holes. She also felt that a lot of toxicity had gone from my body.

    Unfortunately the good effects seemed to diminish after a while, I noticed that the inflammation started to come back and because it was also getting quite expensive I decided to stop taking it.

    I have tried the PRX too but I took Virastop for much longer than the PRX but PRX appeared to work equally as well.

    Hope that helps.

    Maxine that is how I first heard of Virastop too when I first started spending a lot of time on some of the Autism forums a few yrs back and noticed that some parents had attributed their child's recovery partially down to using Virastop.

    There is some discussion on how enzymes can help with viruses in "Enzymes for Autism and other Neurological Conditions" by Karen De Felice. As Forebearance points out proteases digest the protein wall of the virus and this results in viruses being exposed to the immune system which can help fight it off either on its own or with the help from other anti-virals. In addition, DeFelice discusses research which shows that protease enzymes can link up to a part of the immune system called the Alpha-2-macroglobulin (A2M). A2M protects the protease and helps to transport the protease to where healing is needed in the body. Further, when the A2M molecule links up to protease, it switches from a slow to a fast form and is able to quickly remove harmful compounds from the blood.

    DeFelice also points to research done by Lopez (Enzymes - The Fountain of Life, 1994) who found that enzymes have helped in HIV cases, which would be relevant to us.

    Take care.
  8. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    froufox - immune system

    Thanks for the info froufox - very interesting! Sounds like we might need a one two punch with first proteases and then anti-virals (especially for those of us with scrambled immune systems).

    I continue to be amazed at the intelligence and knowledge of people in this forum.

    Thank you,

    Maxine
  9. moonchild

    moonchild

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    natural anti-retrovirals

    Hi everyone

    Just been wondering if anyone else has been musing about alternatives to some of the anti-viral/retroviral (still trying to figure out if there is a difference) drugs that are being experimented with. So many of them seem to have pretty nasty sounding side-effects etc and i am curious to know whether there are natural alternatives? Someone told me that St Johns Wort has been used with AIDS (and ME/CFS) patients successfully by holistic practitioners. Anyone else heard anything about this or other alternatives?

    Blessings to all...
  10. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

  11. moonchild

    moonchild

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    Thanks very much Kim - just finding my feet on here and trying to figure out how to navigate my way around...
  12. Forebearance

    Forebearance Senior Member

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    natural anti-retrovirals

    I just want to add one little clarification. It's my understanding that when an enzyme product like Virastop digests the cell wall of a virus, it kills the virus.

    Forebearance
  13. froufox

    froufox Senior Member

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    Mms2

    I have just read this article about a new MMS... Jim Humble is now recommending a new MMS called MMS2 (calcium hypochlorite) which he claims that when combined with the original MMS is helping to produce negative blood test results in HIV cases and also describes how it is helping men with prostate problems/cancer too even appearing to 'cure' one case of prostate cancer..

    http://jimhumble.biz/biz-mms2intro-eng.htm
  14. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    So the MMS fad faded out and now he's got MMS2. Interesting timing as I started seeing spam on several lists for MMS again recently. I don't know of one doctor who recommends this--and I lurk on a list of 750 integrative med docs who discussed it recently. This is dangerous as far as I'm concerned. We need to remember the lessons we've learned and not experiment with completely untested therapies.
  15. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    Tried MMS, got the T-shirt

    I tried to use MMS and even took it for a full year. Took awhile to find a protocol that would work for me. MMS really does work for some people, I know personally a man who had CFS for six months, followed a recommended MMS protocol, worked up to full dose (15 drops twice daily) and put his CFS into total remission. Now he just needs 6 drops once daily to keep his CFS under control.

    That is very interesting about MMS2 and prostate cancer. Based on my experience I believe that might be a real result, for now. But will it last? If my experience is any indicator, MMS does not make 'permanent' changes. I could not tolerate the full treatment doses but tried lower doses in various strategies for a full year and got only a small improvement. And the improvement only lasted the day of the dose. Basically I found that a small dose of MMS in the morning, say 2-3 drops max, was equivalent to taking a vitamin C tablet (500MG). Literally that is exactly how it worked for me. If I took either MMS or vitamin C I had more energy for at least half the day. I would say that either takes me from my regular 25 on Bell's disability scale, to maybe 35 for a few hours. Given that C supports the adrenals I guess that means I have serious adrenal depletion, but don't most PWC?

    The problem was that when I took higher doses of MMS, even 6-7 drops, I felt really sick a few hours later, pretty much like every treatment I have tried for Lyme, when I work up towards the full dose I get sick.

    I did sense some type of subtle depletion while taking MMS, and often had to take extra minerals.

    Overall I decided to go off MMS and stick with daily Vitamin C.

    I don't know anything about MMS2 but I do know that MMS did do some positive things for me, but the effect was only temporary. Maybe some bugs got killed, who knows.

    Eventually I realized that MMS was probably increasing daily oxidative stress. And that is probably what happens with the many Lyme treatments I do not tolerate. For a PWC with poor redox status this just did not seem wise to continue. But it was good for certain things, once stopped a long-term headache.

    I understand that Jim Humble is searching for a treatment for Lyme and CFS-type illnesses and others are having the same experience I had, his miracle cure can supposedly solve almost anything EXCEPT this type of illness. Thus his MMS2 may be an attempt to finally solve this type of illness. I wish some real researchers would be willing to look at some of these types of alternative treatments, there might be something to learn from them.

    As for MMS being dangerous, I think at high doses it could trigger intense reactions, maybe even be lethal for some PWC. But that is true of many treatments. At low doses I can not detect any lingering ill effects after a year-long experiment. I ran the most conservative experiment I could, with very gradual dose changes and monitoring of symptoms. I guess desperation maybe, and frustration, has driven me to try out some things. In retrospect the lesson I am learning is to be more realistic about claims being made by ANYONE regarding health, particularly when it relates to CFS. If anyone reads my posts they will know that I am also one of the more skeptical about XMRV and CFS. More needs to be proven, many confirmation studies needed, etc.

    Anyway, based on my experience, I would NOT recommend MMS to any PWC. There was no 'miracle.' And that would go double for MMS1 + MMS2, that sounds like a potential disaster for any typically sensitive PWC.
  16. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Well, Kurt, you can go on experimenting with these kinds of therapies but the doctors I know do not recommend it and after salt/c I learned my lesson. Perhaps it's just poisonous and that's what was happening to you. You don't have to create a hypothesis about PWC, oxidative stress, etc. Untried methods promoted by nonscientists should be viewed with extreme caution.
  17. lebowski

    lebowski

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    wait for how long ?

    "Untried methods promoted by nonscientists should be viewed with extreme caution"

    and what u suggest ?

    wait for the official cure of cfs ? ten years maybe ? or if xmrv is not the cause people r looking for then what ? wait for , 20 years ? 30 years ? ..

    what if fredds b12 protocol is a working one for example .. do u know any university making trials for it and shall get results in near future ?
    or should ppl want fredd have an official research education first to try his protocol ?

    untried mustnt mean unpromising .. and there r ppl who tried mms .. altough i have no idea if it can work for anyone , my intension is certainly not to defend mms or even fredds or rich vans .. i just want to say , discouraging ppl for alternative treatments , say it rife or herbs or anything , without a try , will do no good for pwc .. while the option is waiting for an official cure especially while there r so much conspiracy and speculation around about the cover ups by the governments which supposed to do that official work to uncover chronic fatigue syndrome
  18. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    What I suggest is "first do no harm." A lot of people including me were seriously harmed by some of these protocols, which had a patina of science, were promoted by nonscientists, and were actually dangerous. By the way, I do not include Rich's or Freddd's protocol in that group although I think it imperative you work with a doctor when you take the active b12's and folates.
  19. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    Agreed

    You could be right. I only am telling the MMS story so others will know it did not work for CFS.

    Mostly I tried alternative therapies out of frustration with the drug therapies that nearly killed me early in my CFS. At that point I also lost my medical benefits and had extreme financial duress. So there was not much else to do and I was not ready at that time to simply wait it out.

    So now things have swung back to science for me, as real scientists have become interested in CFS. This is an interesting time. But now I am more cautious about both alternative and traditional diagnosis and treatment. And particularly I feel worried when people start to equate the latest finding (XMRV) with CFS, before adequate confirmation studies have been reported. Anyway, with so many replications in progress, time will tell. Maybe we are getting closer to the answers. I hope so.
  20. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Good viruses - as a treatment?

    I don't know enough about viruses to make a fully informed post but I do remember reading that there are a number of good (or helpful) viruses...and that perhaps if more study was done on how to support those viruses in their helpful work that they might actually put the bad ones out of business on their own.
    Apparently study into viruses in general is relatively expensive and almost all research so far has gone into harmful viruses, not helpful ones.

    Even if this could ever be a possibilty for effective treatment I have no idea whether retroviruses (of which there are not many known?) could ever be suppressed this way? Like I said - I'm speculating as the spectacularly uninformed...when it comes to viruses anyway! ;)
    To me it's an interesting idea anyway. And it would definitely fall into the "natural" category.

    My first treatment for "bad" gut bacteria (early 1990's) involved a LOT of anti fungals. That treatment had limited long term affect. What has worked for me is supporting the good bacteria (with a therapeutic grade pro biotic) and in time the good seem to have conquered the bad without further use of any anti-anythings.
    :)

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