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'Natural' antiretrovirals?

Discussion in 'XMRV Testing, Treatment and Transmission' started by dannybex, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. mojoey

    mojoey Senior Member

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    Ala

    Most of us already have mercury in the brain. Mobilizing it will make it uncomfortable but won't aggravate the damage since its already done. It's like how ozone oxidizes metals making them easier to remove, which works out well in theory except our detoxification systems suck so we need binders to do the removing. Might be the same with ALA, although one is an oxidizer and one is an anti-oxidant.
  2. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Redistributing with chelation

    You can actually harm yourself a great deal if you chelate and then inevitably ended up redestributing some which is what will happen. It is like being poisoned again, as it re-settles into new tissue. That's why Cutler tries to keep chelators at a high level and recommends every few hours. Maybe that is a good approach but I would rather use glutathione and/or methylation so that if/when my body decides to let it go it can--rather than having it forcibly removed, and some of it redistributed. I tried that once and it harmed my kidneys (after only 2 modest doses of DMSA).
  3. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    B12 and HIV...

    Mark posted this study in the b12 section...thought it might be good to post it here as well. Not talking about XMRV, but still, that 'other' retrovirus...

    HIV and b-12

    Titre du document / Document title

    Inhibition of productive human immunodeficiency virus-1 infection by cobalamins

    Auteur(s) / Author(s)

    WEINBERG J. B. ; SAULS D. L. ; MISUKONIS M. A. ; SHUGARS D. C. ;
    Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
    VA and Duke univ. medical cent., dep. medicine, obstetrics gynecology, and surgery, Durham NC 27705, ETATS-UNIS

    Rsum / Abstract

    Various cobalamins act as important enzyme cofactors and modulate cellular function. We investigated cobalamins for their abilities to modify productive human immunodeficiency virus-1 (HIV-1) infection of hematopoietic cells in vitro. We show that hydroxocobalamin (OH-Cbl), methylcobalamin (Me-Cbl). and adenosylcobalamin Ado-Cbl (Ado-Cbl) inhibit HIV-1 infection of normal human blood monocytes and lymphocytes.

    The inhibitory effects were noted when analyzing the monocytotropic strains HIV-1-BaL and HIV-1-ADA as well as the lymphocytotropic strain HIV-1-LAI. Cobalamins did not modify binding of gp120 to CD4 or block early steps in viral life cycle, inhibit reverse transcriptase, inhibit induction of HIV-1 expression from cells with established or latent infection, or modify monocyte interferon-α production.

    Because of the ability to achieve high blood and tissue levels of cobalamins in vivo and the general lack of toxicity, cobalamins should be considered as potentially useful agents for the treatment of HIV-1 infection. This is a US government work. There are no restrictions on its use."

    Now whether they would be 'useful agents' with XMRV is the big question...

    d.
  4. ariel

    ariel

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    Hi everyone,
    I am new to the forum, and like everyone else have been watching the developments keenly. And like everyone else am really over feeling this way!
    Anyway, I would like to try and get a handle on some natural treatments for all this, as it might be a while before a protocol is set and I'm not so keen on the idea on drugs. I found an article by Jonathan Campbell that outlines a treatment protocol for AIDS and CFS.

    The basic protocol suggests:
    Vit C,
    Lysine, Proline, Glycine and Arginine,
    Decaf green tea
    Beta Carotene,
    NAC
    Zinc/Copper
    D-Ribose
    ALA
    Curcumin
    Olive leaf
    Whey protein.

    I am already taking some of these, but was wondering if anyone had a take on adding Lysine, Proline, Glycine and Arginine ?
    By the way, I have no real idea who this person is, but it was the fact that he is suggesting exactly the same remedies for HIV and CFS that caught my eye.

    Thanks for any insight!
  5. ariel

    ariel

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  6. lebowski

    lebowski

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    In vitro and in vivo anti-retroviral activity of the substance purified from the aque

    Abstract
    We have isolated a substance with anti-retroviral activity from the freshly prepared crude extract of Chelidonium majus L. (greater celandine) by 9-aminoacridine precipitation method and ion exchange chromatography using Dowex-50W/H+ resin followed by the gel filtration on Sephadex-75 column. Elemental and phenol/sulfuric acid method analyses as well as the mass spectrometry of the purified substance indicated that it may represent a low-sulfated poly-glycosaminoglycan moiety with molecular weight of 3800 Da. The substance prevented infection of human CD4+ T-cell lines AA2 and H9 with HIV-1 at concentration of 25 μg/mL as well as the cell-to-cell virus spread in H9 cells continuously infected with HIV-1, as determined by the measurement of reverse transcriptase activity and p24 content in cell cultures. Furthermore, we have shown in a murine AIDS model that the treatment with purified substance significantly prevented splenomegaly and the enlargement of cervical lymph nodes in C57Bl/6 mice chronically infected with the pool of murine leukemia retroviruses. The mechanism(s) of anti-retroviral activity of this substance have to be elucidated.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=d8d91d81c32e34bf6f9eb92d88dad4c4

    could it just be put it in vodka and have the tincture ?
  7. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Good one, lebowski. There are surely botanicals out there right now that would be helpful and maybe effective. But without a qualified herbalist it's a bit of a crapshoot, as herbs do have side effects.
  8. lebowski

    lebowski

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    :) i cant belive i forgot to add this ..

    ok .. any herb or thing in general must be used under a drs supervision ..

    any gradual exersise program must be applied under a training coachs spv ( well ppl can hurt themseves and orthopethic injury is a serious condition )

    and noone should smoke or eat too much fat or use too much salt ..

    now it s a responsible post ..

    or

    read a few herbalist sites and make ur own tincture and drink it as it is adviced at the sites u trust , and do whatever u like as long as u dont hurt anyone .. just compare what u gain and what u loose by doing it ( and everyone knows this already )

    now it s a real one : )

    but i still do not know if the herb works without the

    " 9-aminoacridine precipitation method and ion exchange chromatography using Dowex-50W/H+ resin followed by the gel filtration on Sephadex-75 column"

    anyone knows how to do this ?
  9. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    Oh lebowski, you've made me laugh with your disclaimers. :D:D:D:D
    There actually are some cautions that should be considered with this plant. Below, I've bolded some of the potential adverse reactions of using "Rock Poppy".

    The sap of Greater Celandine is an old folk remedy used topically to get rid of warts. It's a member of the poppy family and like the others, has medicinal alkaloids - which, as you suggest, could be extracted by putting some of the flowering plant up in a bit of vodka (100 proof for better extraction). I have known about its use for G.I. problems (nausea, indigestion, poor liver function). But anti-retroviral? Very interesting.

    From the Egyptian Minister of Health and Population Monograph For Herbal Medicinal Products 2007

    Greater Celandine

    Chemical constituents:
    Over than 30 isoquinoline alkaloids have been identified, including the majot chelindonine (0.07%), coptisine, allocryptopine, berberine and sporteine, chelebythine, sanguinarine, dl-stylopine.
    The isoquinoline alkaloids contain many structural types, including benzophenenthridenes (chelidonine chelerythrine and sanguinarine) and protoberberines (as berberine and coptisine).
    It also contains other compounds including chelidonic asid and chelidoniol, rutin, quercetin, choline, methylamine, histamine, tyramine, cinamic acid and caffeic acid esters.

    Pharmacology:
    Alcoholic extract of dried chelidonium exhibited a reduction in liver injury induced by carbon tetrachloride in rates, also a significant reduction in elevated.
    Plasma levels of liver enzymes andbilirulin was occurred in the treated groups of animals. An absence of fibrotic changes in the chelidonium treated rats was noticed.
    Chelandonine has mild central analgesic and strong spasmolytic properties that primary affect the biliary system.
    Caffeic acid is claimed have choleretic antispasmodic activity, comptisine and caffeoylmalic acid have shown similar spasmolytic activity.
    The total extract of the herb significantly induced bile flow, however it did this without increasing the total output of bile acids.
    An alkaloid fraction contained chelerythrine and sanguinarine as found ineffective against Gram-negative bacteria invitro. However, significant antimicrobial effect was observed against Gram-positive bacteria such as S. aureus and two strains of streptococcus and also against candida albicans.
    Extracts of chelidonium were found to have antiviral effects invitro against adenovirus typs 12,15 and herpes simplex virus type.
    Alkaloids from chelidonium and saguinarine solution inhibited the growth of trichomonas vaginalis invitro, also it showed a potent inhibition of 5-lipoxygenase in polymorphonuclear leucocytes and 12- lipoxygenase in mouse epidermis, the chllidonium alkaloids chelerythine and sanguinarine have demodtrated anti-inflammatory activity in the carrageenan ratpassoedema test.
    The water-soluble purified methanol extract of dried chelidonium demonstrated high tumor inhibition with relatively cytotoxic side effects. An alcohol extract of rhizomes and roots of chelidonium exhibited cytotoxicity against a carcinoma of the nasopharynx invitro. One of the cytotoxic principles was found to be the alkaloid coptisine.
    A monograph included with ukrain the semisnthetic derivative of celandine referred to a claim that a nutional cancer institute (USA), study showed drug action against human cancer. However, ukrain has not been approved by the kill cancer cells by inducing apoptosis and inhibiting DNA, RNA and protein synthesis.
    Extracts of celandine inhibit keratinocyte proliferation. Possible use in treatment of skin disease such as waters and psoriasis.

    Reported uses:
    Greater celandine has been used for thousands of years to treat and clear the eyesight especially cataracts.
    It was reported that swallows use the latex that flows from cuts in the stems or leaves as a means to sharpen their eyesight.
    It acts as a mild sedative, relaxing the muscles of bronchial tubes, it has been used in western and Chinese herbal traditions to treat bronchitis, whooping cough and asthma.
    It has been known to be useful in liver disease digestive.
    Its antispasmodic effect extends to the gall bladder and helps to improve bile flow, this would partly accounts for its in treating jaundice gallstones and gallbladder inflammation and destruction pain as well as its long standing reputation as a detoxifying herb.
    Recently celandine was found to stimulate the flow of bile and pancreatic enzymes.
    The plant latex has been used to remove warts, soften calluses, corns and loosen bad teeth.
    Used externally to soothe and encourage the healing of skin conditions such as eczema, psoriasis and malignant skin tumors, which are slowly broken down by the effect of its protein dissolving enzymes.
    Chelidonium alkaloids have been used from the late 1800s in cancer treatment; it has been used to treat clonic polyposis, papitlomas, condylomas and nodules. N.B. a semisynthetic derivative of celandine alkaloids conjugated with thiophosphoric acid is available only in Europe under the name Ukrain Ukrain was reported to be toxic to malignant cells and has amimunoregulatory properties, case reports and studies obtained through medline document Ukrains success in treating several types and sites of cancer including breast colorectal cervical, testicular, esophageal, wethral and ovarian malignant melanoma; optic nerve astrocytoma, and kaposis sarcoma in patients with AIDS.

    Dosages and routes of administration:
    Liquid extract (1:2), 1-2 ml 3 times daily tincture 1:10 in 45% ml 3 times daily (short term use of higher doses equivalent of 3 g per day may be necessary in china 3-9 g / day or even more is used.
    1- these doses are generally administrated used by decoction and this method may not efficiently extract chelidonium alkaloid.
    2- high doses should be restricted to short-term use and long-term use of normal doses is not preferred.
    Dosage of ukrain is 5 to 20 mg per I.V. injection every other day depending on tumor mass, speed of growth, extent of the disease and the patient's immune status.
    The average daily dose is 2 to 4 g of drug in liquid or solid extracts, equivalent to 12 to 13 mg total alkaloids calculated as chelidonine

    Adverse reactions:
    Dizziness, Drowisness, Fatigue, Hypotension, Insomnia, Nausea, Polyuria, Possible embryotoxic effect (animal studies) possible reversible hepatotoxicity, Restlessness thirst, tingling, itching, stabling pain in tumor area, it latex causes dermatitis and oral ingestion has been reported to cause abdominal pain, vonsiling, diarrhea, fainting, severe stomatitis, gastroenteritis, hemorrhagic gastritis, coma and even death.

    Contraindications and Interactions:
    Celandine should not be given to those with biliary obstruction, glaucoma or hepatic disease, cardiac glycosides and ukrain, induce possible ECG changes. With morphine, may reduce efficacy. With sulphonamide may reduce efficacy.

    Pregnancy and lactations:
    Should not be used during pregnancy and lactation

    Special considerations:
    Given the nature of the alkaloid content of this herb long term use (except topical) is not preferred.
    Notice that celandine is not related to the plant known as lesser celandine, Ranunculus ficaria fam Ranunailacea.
    Warn the patient to avoid concomitants use with cardiac glycosides, andidiabetics, analgesics and antibiotics.
    Warm the patient that oral ingestion over permitted doses has caused major toxicity.
  10. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    Safer botanical antiretrovirals

    Lebowski, you set me off on a search for antiretroviral botanicals that don't have the potential toxicity of Greater Celandine. Among the herbs that have been used for HIV, three stand out as potentially effective, yet safe remedies: Hyssop, and two members of the mint family, Lemon Balm and Self-Heal. I think it will be important to have gentler options for those that test positive for XMRV, but cannot use antiretroviral drugs due to adverse effects or sensitivities. All of these can be infused in hot water (tea) and are available through reputable online herb distributors, such as Mountain Rose Herbs. Whereas many of the high alkaloid-content herbs (like Greater Celandine) require a spirit medium to extract the desired properties, these gentler herbs work by releasing tannins and other water-solubles components in hot water and these are the constituents that inhibit viruses (The last article I cited tested water extracts vs. alcohol extracts and determined "Aqueous extracts contained more anti-viral activity than did ethanol extracts").

    Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalis)

    Inhibition of HIV replication by Hyssop officinalis extracts.

    Isolation of a previously unidentified polysaccharide (MAR-10) from Hyssop officinalis that exhibits strong activity against human immunodeficiency virus type 1.

    Lemon Balm (Melissa officinalis) and Self-Heal (Prunella vulgaris)

    Aqueous extracts from peppermint, sage and lemon balm leaves
    display potent anti-HIV-1 activity by increasing the virion density


    Anti-HIV-1 activity of herbs in Labiatae

    Identification of inhibitors of the HIV-1 gp41 six-helix bundle formation from extracts of Chinese medicinal herbs Prunella vulgaris and Rhizoma cibotte

    Biological activities of Prunella vulgaris extract.

    Inhibition of lentivirus replication by aqueous extracts of Prunella vulgaris
  11. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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    There's dozens or more herbs that inhibit viruses in vitro but are useless when taken orally. I've spent many hours researching this and so far, it seems that phyllanthus (which was pointed out previously in this thread by another user) sounds the most promising.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15498604
    "These results support the conclusion that P. amarus has inhibitory effects on HIV not only in vitro but also in vivo."
  12. lebowski

    lebowski

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    licorice and st johns

    hi kim ,
    i read the links u gave and i hope these herbal antiretrovirals work in vivo , as cfs since 98 posted some herbs bind to albumin etc in the body and cant work , or maybe some cant work because they r not strong enough for hiv , in this case they still may work for xmrv .. there r two other well knowns , st johns wort and licorice to try if i remember correct ..

    i would love to know if all these can be made in the same jar as tincture without blocking each other chemically , i mean is there an herb-herb interaction among such herbals ..

    it will take some time to find the effective pharma antiretroviral for this nightmare and i have to do something in between , i just cant sit and wait here ..
  13. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Mushrooms: Antiviral, antibacterial, antitumor...

    Thanks for all the replies.

    Here's a study touting the many benefits of several different medicinal mushrooms:

    http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/2/3/285

    "In contrast to bacterial infectious diseases, viral diseases cannot be treated by common antibiotics and specific drugs are urgently needed. Antiviral effects are described not only for whole extracts of mushrooms but also for isolated compounds. They could be caused directly by inhibition of viral enzymes, synthesis of viral nucleic acids or adsorption and uptake of viruses into mammalian cells. These direct antiviral effects are exhibited especially by smaller molecules. Indirect antiviral effects are the result of the immunostimulating activity of polysaccharides or other complex molecules."
  14. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    St. John's Wort

    >>

    Hi Lebowski,

    I am personally considering starting St. John's Wort (possible antiretroviral). It is something a local herbalist suggested to me several months ago. I am also considering combining it with inosine. Does anyone know how to make guinea pig noises?

    Maxine
  15. Jimk

    Jimk

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    I may have missed these in this thread, but both DGL (deglycyrrhizinated licorice-- which I can never pronounce) and Lauricidan/monolaurin are reported to have anti-retroviral effects. I can't find the links in my welter of current info, but they are worth adding to the mix.
  16. IntuneJune

    IntuneJune Senior Member

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    Can't wait, herbs

    For all who posted before me, for taking your time to put into writing your knowledge....... thank you ........... Assimilating your information "Oi Vay" (is that how that expression is spelled).

    Every individual must make the decisions for him/herself. We must take responsibility for ourselves.

    I teach an average of 7 hours (7 classes) a week which does require preparation, creativity, and coordination. This takes every second of non-fibrofog thinking I have. Nothing is left for coordinatng activities of daily living so that my days flow easier.

    As other posters have said, while we wait for protocols to be established, why not start on herbal antivirals to get the ball rolling.

    Sounds good to me. But after reading this thread, I have no idea where to turn.

    Anyone else as confused? Those that have posted sure sound as though they are honing their game plan.

    June
  17. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Lauricidin is what I'm currently taking to help me with my ongoing chronic infections, and WOW! it's strong. I have tried just about all the Chinese anti-viral herbs and many MANY others, but nothing has been as potent as Lauricidin.

    The one problem I've had with it is that it does chelate heavy metals, along with killing the viruses and bacteria (and fungus). So it's a tricky thing to get the dose just right to be able to manage all that.
  18. Nina

    Nina Senior Member

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    Is anybody else a little worried that taking natural anti-retrovirals now might interfere with getting tested for XMRV?
  19. Daisymay

    Daisymay Senior Member

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    Dreambirdie thanks for writing on your experiences on lauricidin, I have heard others say it is very potent. I think I am right in remebering that Dr John Martin used to use it for what he called stealth viruses way back, wonder if they were retrovirus?

    Anyway with regard heavy metals, do you, or do the makers of lauricidin suggest taking anything to help you get the heavy metals safely out the body, or are you saying that the heavy metals attach to the lauricidin in some way and are carried harmlessly out of the body?
  20. Daisymay

    Daisymay Senior Member

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    Yes Nina, we had been thinking of starting on artesunate but I don't really want to do this until we get tested, which is a problem living in the UK as it may take some time to be available over here (don't fancy trying to get the blood sent over quickly to the US, to risky, want to have the best odds for an accurate test).

    Still I supose we've all waited so long, but it would be good to get going on some of these things as soon as possible.

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