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'Natural' antiretrovirals?

Discussion in 'XMRV Testing, Treatment and Transmission' started by dannybex, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    If this XMRV retrovirus is indeed the major factor in CFS/ME (and David Rice has posted over at CFSFMExperimental that he's talked w/Mikovitz and she believes it is) then I'm wondering what alternative treatments might be available...?

    Homeopathic nosodes?

    Ozone or hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HIV doesn't like oxygen, so I'm just guessing that XMRV doesn't either)

    Olive Leaf Extract?

    Thymic Protein A?

    I find it very interesting that when the higher number was found (95%) since the study was published, that (I think) they represented antibodies to XMRV, suggesting that it could be put into remission and or has been put into remission without having to take drug cocktails for the rest of one's life.

    ???
  2. susan

    susan Senior Member

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    Hyperbaric

    Just before this news of a XMRV retrovirus became known, my homeopath who is detoxing me of mercury, suggested I do some kind of hyperbaric. She said it it the most effective way of cleansing the body...keeping in mind theat viruses cant grow without mercury. She suggests I buy a particular ionizer much stronger than is generally on the market.

    To this I add a slow flow of oxygen on the ionizer out let to get even better saturation therapy. I put on body suit which is connected by a hose and lay in it for 1 hr a day. Now all this is going to set me back $3000..... a huge hunk of money that I cant afford but after 21 yrs I am so over this wretched illness that I am graspign at straws.

    If there is drug treatment for the XMRV I doubt that I could take it as everything makes me sooo ill.

    I am thinking of going down this route as I dont have many more good years before old age sets in... . If HIV hates oxygen,...jus tlike cancer, I would imagine so would this critter......right now I imagine it is relishing living in my acid cellular environment.
  3. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Cheney's current recommendations...

    "If there is drug treatment for the XMRV I doubt that I could take it as everything makes me sooo ill."

    Same here, and I think that's pretty common for the CFS/ME population as a whole. (I'm not sure how it ties into Rich's glutathione depletion hypothesis, but think it has something to do with it.)

    Anyway, speaking of mercury, I found this list of Cheney's recommendations posted over on ProHealth:

    It is important to note that the external membrane glycoprotein of XMRV responsible for cell to cell infectivity and propagation of the virus internally to other organs, immune cells and infectious body secretions is attached by disulfide bridges to the transmembrane glycoprotein.

    These bridges can be broken and the virus rendered non-infectious or non-transmissible to other cells by redox shifting to a more reducing biological terrain and unfortunately strengthened by a more oxidizing body terrain.

    Factors that are highly oxidizing include diets high in meats, sugars, fructose, processed foods, allergic foods, fish oil in the special case of CFS, environmental exposures and especially mercury (Sushi) or dirty amalgam extractions or cracked amalgams and immune activators such as vaccinations and echinacea, mold, stress or chaos in your life, heavy exercise, excessive heat or cold and EMF.

    Factors that are reducing and therefore protective include fresh vegetables (not overcooked and preferably raw) and especially freshly juiced green drinks, olive oil, low stress, clean environments, low EMF exposure (aka avoiding cell phones and unshielded house currents), and avoiding drugs that induce P450.

    Probably the worst thing is severe stress or life chaos combined with a bad diet and mercury exposure. EMF could also be a bigger factor than people realize. EMF couples into the bi-lipid membrane of cells and could activate NF Kappa B.

    Proper buffering of the redox set point for the human bodys biological terrain is critical to control intracellular viral replication. Oxidative stess will potentially amplify XMRV replication. The biggest amplifier of oxidative stress is NF Kappa B and one of the best inhibitors of NF-kB are the artemisins (Artesunate and Wormwood). Artemisins are also thought to be useful in cancer.

    We will be exploring the dose response curve for Artemisins to inhibit infectious XMRV in the near future to determine the best dose. We already know that activating NF-kB activates this virus and suppressing NF-kB inhibits XMRV. Artesunate is also known to inhibit HIV and all the associated herpes viruses that are co-factors in the evolution of AIDS and CFS as well.
  4. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Danny

    Where is this on PH? Can you post the URL as I missed it.

    Feverfew inhibits NF Kappa B. It's easier to tolerate than artesunate.

    Ubiquinol (reduced glutathione) is expensive but might be useful especially for anyone with heart problems (my issue is the fillers--never even tried it for that reason).

    It's important to realize that a hypoxic state is naturally a free-radical producing oxidized state. That's why I think mild chambers (hyperbaric) alternating with lots of good reducing strategies might be best.

    Green juices are helpful-they do have high sugar content though...

    Rich's approach would be very meaningful--try to increase glutathione and methylation to quiet viruses and quell redox damage.

    Allt his is just talk on my part tho. I have no idea how to truly get myself well and though I've found some very helpful adjuncts I haven't detoxified the mercury stores that have been in my body since a teenager and were the first big blow to my health. (Having amalgams out is helpful but the mercury is still there in my body).
  5. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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    I mentioned this on the main thread, but since a new thread has been created specifically for this topic, I'll post again:

    Olive leaf extract is an integrase inhibitor and inhibits HIV:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17275783

    It has also been found to be helpful in experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis, an animal model of MS:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19386399

    Anecdotal evidence has suggested OLE may be antiherpesviral too, which is actually the reason I started taking it earlier this year, but I could not find any peer reviewed articles attesting to this.
  6. mezombie

    mezombie Senior Member

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    Artemisins

    Well, that's interesting. I vaguely recall reading that. It was posted on this forum.

    Ah, I found it. It's on Cheney's website, http://www.cheneyresearch.com/category/xmrv-subscribers, the part that is available to the public without charge.

    Artemisins are used in Lyme treatment. I'm treating for Lyme because that is the most recent diagnosis I've received :rolleyes:

    I'm tolerating the antibiotics and antiparasites, but even this treatment is scaring me.

    Keep those natural alternative ideas coming!

    What natural alternatives work for people with HIV/AIDS? I'm sure the answer to this question is somewhere on the internet, but I am too mush-brained to even attempt the research :eek:
  7. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    herbs to help

    I posted this earlier to another thread, but here it is again. Jonathan Campbell has an all natural protocol for AIDS and CFS that is focused on retroviral infection management. He sells his protocols, but gives this one out free from his website. Here is the link:

    http://www.cqs.com/immunedisorders.pdf

    Also I want to echo the comments on Olive Leaf Extract, I have been using that for many years as an anti-viral, it is particularly helpful at night for some reason, sometimes I take it with Klamath Blue-green Algae.

    And, here is one I have not tried, a Ayurvedic herb called p. Niruri. An extract from this herb has been patented as an anti-retroviral medicine. Here is the wiki info:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllanthus_niruri

    And the patented extract:

    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4937074.html

    I think this natural route (herbs, homeopathics, nutriceuticals, oxygen/pH, etc.) is the direction to head, given that I do not want to wait 10-20 years for a drug cure that I probably will not even be able to tolerate.
  8. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi Jen...

    Sorry...I should've posted it earlier. Here it is:

    http://www.prohealth.com/fibromyalgia/blog/boardDetail.cfm?id=1368231#1368499

    Re: Mercury, have you looked into the Andrew Cutler Protocol?

    I had my fillings out eons ago, but long before they knew anything about chelation. I've recently started his protocol (after getting the DDI Hair Elements Test), and while it take many rounds (months) to really see a difference, I can tell you I definitely felt physically and mentally a little better during the first 3 rounds. I'll start my fourth on Wednesday or Thursday (25mg ALA every 3 hours, for 3 days, 2 nights, then wait 10 days and it starts all over again. Some people have to start at really low doses and work up, but he swears alpha lipoic acid is the only compound that is shown in studies to remove mercury from the brain and nervous system.)
  9. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Thanks Kurt...

    I agree...plus it's important to keep in mind that people with severe CFS/ME have recovered before this announcement, so there must be other ways to trample down this XMRV...

    Re Olive Leaf: Some people who tend on the cold side (like myself!) might not be able to tolerate OLE because it's so bitter (cooling in TCM - Chinese Medicine). But perhaps if they balance it with a warming herb, they'll be able to tolerate it better.

    ?
  10. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Danny

    Oddly enough ALA never did much for me either way. Whereas DMSA--it pulled out and redistributed mercury and made me ill.

    But I didn't do it every 3-4 hours back then. My only issue with that is I have sleep issues and whenever I can get a nice block of sleep it's always a good thing. If I had to wake myself up I'd probably create a bad insomnia situation.
  11. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Totally understand. I don't know if it's the melatonin or what, but so far I haven't had a problem...in fact my sleep may be even better during the rounds.

    Plus, it's "only" 2 nights, every 10 days or so.

    Don't want to hijack the thread, so here's a link to a thread on Cutler/Mercury:

    http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?t=328&highlight=Cutler
  12. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    H Dan--

    I did not do well on Alpha Lipoic. For me it acted as "mobilizer" not a chelator. In my case, many things can act as mobilizers. But N-A-C has been the ONLY thing that has helped me actually neutralize and clear the heavy metals.
  13. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Hi Dan, thanks, I'm glad it's helping you. I'm just not willing to do that schedule nor do DMSA again, so I have to try the methylation approach. There is substantial evidence if you get rid of your partial methylation block you will be able to start dumping your metals in the order your body can/wants to. However, you really may have to bring a # of things on board. That includes bh4 which is a drug not a nutrient and expensive. Dr Yasko thought I would need that, I think. I'll start with hydroxy and folates. Haven't started yet. Am wondering about Lisa's great reaction to an injection and Rich's comment that the hydroxy in water I bought probably isn't stable and may lose potency. I still haven't figured that out. Like someone else who posted on Freddd's thread, she has MCS and can't tolerate sublingual fillers.
  14. Mary

    Mary

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    low-dose naltrexone

    Low-dose naltrexone (http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/) is one more avenue well worth exploring - it has shown benefit with some AIDS patients, MS, Crohn's disease and more, and side effects are supposed to be minimal. I'll probably be trying this in a couple of months, XMRV virus or no XMRV virus, as my immune systems is compromised anyways -

    Mary
  15. Edy

    Edy Guest

    I thought Ubuquinol is a form of CoQ10 not glutathione

    I thought ubiquinol is a form of CoQ10
  16. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    ubiquinol

    Sorry for my error--its the reduced form of Coq10.
  17. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Mary,

    I have been taking this for 2 months and it has helped me a lot. I don't know which of its avenues into the immune system is making the difference, but something is, and considering its success with HIV, I am certainly going to continue. I think it is a horse worth betting on--and the bet is cheap--it is available either as a generic or compounded for about a buck a day.

    It is supposed to shift the immune system from Th2 to Th1, affect the B lymphocytes and increase natural killer cells--all good in relation to XMRV. And it is true, in my experience, that there are very few side effects. They can be kept to the minimum by moving up the dosage very, very slowly. I am not yet at the full 4.5 mg dose but hope to be in a month or so.

    Sushi
  18. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    In the interview I posted on the media thread Mikovits says 3 things set the virus off:

    1) hormones
    2) cortisol (stress hormone) thus stress
    3) cytokines (NF Kappa B in particular)--thus if you get other infections that spike cytokines

    I'm not sure if this is universally true...but anyway.
  19. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/7/6/456.pdf

    This is the most comprehensive study that I have ever seen on mercury detoxification using glutathione and alpha lipoic acid.

    Unfortunately it found that ALA had a tendency to move the mercury around and deposit it in the brain.:eek:
  20. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Glutathione & ALA

    I think I'll stick with glutathione...just increasing my reserves...I'm too skeeered of ALA, DMSA, DMPS etc!

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