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Natural Alternatives to Rituximab?

Discussion in 'Rituximab: News and Research' started by gailw, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. gailw

    gailw

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    I'm wondering if there's a substance or combined substances in the natural world (non-synthetic) that would mimic Rituximab's effects? I think many of us are excited about Rituximab but don't see it as being widely available to ME/CFS patients in the near future. I just want to live a normal life again.
  2. LisaGoddard

    LisaGoddard Senior Member

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    Hi, There is a component called halofuginone in the chinese herb chang shan which is being studied for its use in autoimmune diseases but not sure that it works like rituximab. I've tried chang shan but the whole herb must have some immune stimulating properties as I got very bad inflammation symptoms (as I do now with even mild immune stimulants) and had to stop.
    I would be really interested to know is anyone has any suggestions on a rituximab alternative so will be checking this thread. Hopefully, someone has some ideas.
    Lisa
  3. LisaGoddard

    LisaGoddard Senior Member

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  4. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10726985
    Not sure if that helps.
  5. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure there is nothing 'natural' out there that will have the specificity of a monoclonal antibody. (Unfortunately).

    There might be 'natural' compounds that target b-cells, but anything with a strong effect will also have strong side-effects due to lack of specificity.
  6. Tia

    Tia Senior Member

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    I've heard theres a thing called "Devils claw" that is some kind of plant from the deep djungle that's supposed to allieve inflammatory diseases and so should work for me, but the trick is to be VERY careful with it since if you use too many drops, it sets the nervous system going which gives major anxiety so one should go up in dosage slowly and carefully..
  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    • Low-dose naltrexone (LDN) depresses B cell production, which might explain why LDN is of benefit for ME/CFS.
    The Bonneau paper: B lymphocyte proliferation is suppressed by the opioid growth factor-opioid growth factor receptor axis: Implication for the treatment of autoimmune diseases.


    • Kava kava herb (Piper methysticum) if used long-term can deplete lymphocyte cells (lymphocytes comprise B-cells, T-cells and NK cells), so kava kava might deplete B-cells, but also indiscriminately deplete T-cells and NK cells.

    Thus low-dose naltrexone plus kava kava could be an interesting experiment in treating ME/CFS, as this combo might provide some rituximab-like effects.

    The only thing of concern with kava kava is that some forms can be toxic to the liver (hepatotoxic), but it is kava leaf or kava stem that is toxic, not kava root, I understand, so make sure you get the root. Acetaminophen / paracetamol should not really be taken with kava.
  8. MishMash

    MishMash *****

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    Kava kava is really hard to drink. I tried it in Hawaii and it tasted like boiled mud. I didn't get much of an effect, except my lips turned numb. I also took Ldn for several months and didn't notice any change.
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Kava kava supplement usually comes in tablet or capsule form. No need to go native...
  10. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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  11. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi Snow Leopard, this is substantially my understanding. Due to the mechanism of action of Rituximab, any "natural" therapy that mimics it would be more dangerous than Rituximab, with one important exception.

    Rituximab is a natural antibody. Its just isolated and purified. Its not a synthetic drug, though it was tested and marketed as one. The only equivalents would be alternative B cell targeting antibody based drugs.

    Bye, Alex
    L'engle likes this.
  12. Dolche

    Dolche Dolche

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    All you have to research is iv nutraceuticals protocols for cfs. It falls under orthomolecular medicine many have been help by highdose iv vitamin c and hydogenperoxdide iv,myers cocktail iv, gluthathione, plant sterols. They are extremely beneficial if you stick to them for months based on your needs and keep the ante. They guaranteed and improvement in functionality. In addition to vegetable, fruit, good fats, fish, organic chicken, noooo sugar , nooo bread. And juicing at least twice a day. Take daily vitamimns , cq10, omega 3,probiotics,b12 complex, niacin, goji berry juice,coconut oil .

    Rordon clinic is helpful?....Research vitam c it's a miracle antioxidant our body needs and it's not produced by our bodies. Cfs people need loooooots of it. Kills viruses, but only makes you tired ...herx is more tolerable no pain??? Vitamin c is antimmlamatory!

    http://www.riordanclinic.org/patient-care/testimonials/

    you need a good doctor holistic immunologist, oncologist , or endocrinologist or orthomolecular, they need to understand our immune panels.

    Blessings


    Julia
  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    This Tripterygium wilfordii herb looks interesting.

    "Preparations of Tripterygium wilfordii hook have been used in the treatment of a number of autoimmune and inflammatory diseases since the 1960s. Accumulated data from the clinical trials suggest efficacy of this treatment in a number of rheumatic diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus." 1

    "Extracts of Tripterygium wilfordii hook are effective in traditional Chinese medicine for treatment of immune inflammatory diseases including rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, nephritis and asthma." 1
  14. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

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  15. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Hip & @ SL - It's those adverse effects that almost had me comeback and delete this post. I know that the majority of us would be very cautious and do our homework, but it's that one that didn't and just by luck found it available on the net, order it and ended up in hospital.

    I almost wish there was a "Senior Thread", but you know how that goes as it would not take long to get pm'd to someone. If either one of you wants to move it to a 3-way conversation or just 2 is fine.

    We can leave it there and I can edit with a strong precautionary statement. It was interesting to me because I was planning on looking at it much further and see how the adverse effects held up through more research, but I haven't been able to do dit due to my disability hearing popping up at the last minute.
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You took thunder god vine (Tripterygium wilfordii) and ended up in hospital?

    Very sorry to hear that. What exactly happened? What side effects did you experience that needed hospital treatment?

    (I put the above in red, in order make sure everyone sees it. Perhaps you might add the same sentence in red to your above original post about Tripterygium wilfordii, just to be on the safe side.)

    It is true that people with ME/CFS can sometimes be very sensitive to even innocuous, safe supplements that cause no problems in anyone else. But Tripterygium wilfordii does seem to have a high rate of significant side effects. See here:

  17. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I didn't take it and end up i the hospital.

    I said it would be my luck for putting it up on the forum that someone will go buy some without researching it really good and end up in the hospital.

    That's why I thought very hard after I put it up there that I should go back and delete it because I am a little scared someone "in a desperate attempt" to find relief may finf some and end up hurting themselves.

    Very sorry for the confusion!
  18. perovyscus

    perovyscus

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    Plasmapheresis
  19. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    An important use of plasmapheresis is in the therapy of autoimmune disorders, where the rapid removal of disease-causing autoantibodies from the circulation is required in addition to other medical therapy. It is important to note that plasma exchange therapy in and of itself is useful to temper the disease process, where simultaneous medical and immunosuppressive therapy is required for long-term management. Plasma exchange offers the quickest short-term answer to removing harmful autoantibodies; however, the production of autoantibodies by the immune system must also be suppressed, usually by the use of medications such as prednisone, cyclophosphamide, cyclosporine, mycophenolate mofetil, rituximab or a mixture of these.

    Sounds feasible. Wonder if its been tried for me/cfs?
  20. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

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    ECP (extracorporeal photochemotherapy) is now being used to treat GVHD as an alternative to Prednisone. I think there has been some sucess in treating auto immune disease in the past. It seems to work by performing chemo using drugs and light on the t cells. Side effects seem low but it is very expensive.
    http://www.nature.com/leu/journal/v17/n11/full/2403114a.html

    The mechanism seems unclear but they talk about downregulation of the activity of T-cell clones in auto immune diseases (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15214889)


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19369039

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