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Nanoparticle theory and interferon in pDC's

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by cigana, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    I am forever trying to work out why I (and many other PWC's) feel incredibly better in certain locations around the world.

    The standard theory for this is mold, but sometimes I find this too simplistic. I have started to wonder about the effects of pollutants, since I tend to feel better in locations that are quite remote and have clean air.

    I came across this paper, which shows that small particles (micrometric) stimulate the innate immune system differently to nanoparticles. Nanoparticles, found in air pollution, cause plasmacytoid dendritic cells to produce interferon-alpha. That links back to DeMeirlier's research.

    These nanoparticles, which have been on the rise due to the increasing number of diesel vehicles, have recently be found in human brains, produce multi-organ toxicity in fish, and enter in the bloodstream for 3 months after exposure.
    This seems to be cutting edge research.
     
  2. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @cigana

    unbelievable... I've been thinking about this so much this week! Particulate matter is a big inflammation / pain / brain fog trigger for me... It can be pollution, or allergens (although I don't have IgE responses; my doctor's hypothesis is that I have a neuroimmune reaction to any particles... I inhale them and they inflame my nervous system)..

    I'm going to get some alpha lipoic acid to help detox the PM... Wobenzyme and Vascuzyme have been amazingly helpful, too... I wish I would have discovered them sooner... also, taking betaine hcl before meals has helped w general inflammation.


    The mold theory was always too simplistic for me, too... I react to VOC's which includes some mycotoxins, but other chemicals, too. The PM in my location has been way worse in the past 10 years... I ljust discovered this data yesterday:
    http://www.sparetheair.org/stay-informed/particulate-matter/pm-box-scores


    Are there more particles in the air if there's more humidity? humidity drives me crazy... dry high altitudes w clean air are best for breathing

    thanks for sharing this
     
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  3. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    I think increased humidity allows the air to carry more coarse-size pollutants, so that might correlate with your symptoms. Not sure about nanoparticles, I doubt the research has been done.
    Thanks for the link - I only wish they would also track nanoparticles!
     
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  4. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    so, there's PM 10.0, PM 2.5 and now nano particles? three categories?

    what do you do to combat adverse effects? have you tried alpha lipoic acid?

    EDIT: One more way to combat the nanoparticle damage: Omega Fatty Acids, 2-4 grams... I tried this and it helped, but it gets expensive. Also, it has to be super pure. In the US there's an Rx fish oil called Lovaza. when I had good insurance, I took that and it was great.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ackle-harmful-health-effects-of-air-pollution
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  5. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    Usually the PM2.5 catergory contains particles of size range 0.5-2.5microns. Nanoparticles are about 100 times smaller than a micron.
    Nothing seems to help me (yes I tried alpha-lipoic), except getting to a clean place which brings huge benefits. Thanks for the tip on omega-3's, I didn't realise they help protect against pollution.

    The places I've felt better in have all been remote (away from towns), with one exception: a small city in Japan. When I learned that diesel vehicles are very rare in Japan, I realised that meant nanoparticle pollution is also likely lower.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
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  6. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    so, nanoparticles are strictly caused by diesel?
     
  7. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    Diesel is the primary source but they are found in regular exhaust, from anything burning (eg cooking), paints, printers, vaccines etc. They are also synthesized by mold.
     
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  8. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    what does this mean? a byproduct of mold? from what I understand, mycotoxins are the bad part of mold for a lot of ppl - not spores... and my understanding is that mycotoxins are like VOC's... a poisonous vapor.. not sure this is right, though
     
  9. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    See Erik Johnson's post here.
     
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  10. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    One option (that I haven't tried) might be to use photocatalytic oxidation to break down nanoparticles, such as Airocide or Molekule.
    I'm still trying to work out if they are effective enough.
     
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  11. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    let me know what you find out!
     
  12. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    @cigana if nanoparticles cause interferon alpha production, wouldnt this make us feel better, since our pDC's arent making enough interferon?
     
  13. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    I suppose not if they're making too much interferon. The general point is that nanoparticles interact with our immune system in ways we don't understand and pDC's are probably not the only way.
     
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  14. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    this is timely!

    Dust is making you fat, study says
    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/13/dust-is-making-you-fat-study-says/

    "Duke University researchers have found a link between dust and body fat. As the Daily News reported, the scientists took pre-fat cells from mice and exposed them to house dust. The bad news is that seven out of 11 dust samples caused the cells to prematurely develop into adult fat cells. Even worse? Nine out of 11 dust samples drove the cells to divide, actually creating more pre-fat cells. These cells are the building blocks of body fat.
    ...
    Apparently, scientists are calling for urgent research into this disruptor-fueled dust because the level at which the dust impacted the cells is way below the amount kids are exposed to daily, by government estimate. Gulp.

    “We were most surprised by how low the concentrations were that we saw having an effect,” said Dr Christopher Kassotis as the Telegraph noted.

    Where do these disruptors come from? They are all around you, including many household products such as pesticides, cosmetics, packaging and cleaning fluids. Did we mention plastic? All of that gets into our dust and then into us. Anyone else feel the need to clean?"

    --
    This reminded me that pollution can cause / contribute to diabetes:
    https://www.thediabetescouncil.com/can-air-pollution-cause-diabetes/
     
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