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NADH during methilation protocol ?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by daniariete2000, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    Hi all ,

    is it possible to take NADH during methilation protocol or can slow and reduce the methilation cycle as I red somewhere ?

    Thanks
  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    B.C., Canada
    Hi daniariete,
    I 'm intrigued that you read that NADH could impair methylation. I think the opposite may be more likely, as there's a newly studied gene defect that can significantly impact mitochondrial function and which involves NADH. NDUFS aids in the transfer of electrons from NADH to the respiratory chain and when this step doesn't work properly it will likely result in PEM, fatigue, brain fog, weakness, etc.

    NADH and ubiquinol are suggested for those with NDUFS defects, according to my methylation practitioner. I've been taking NADH for a month since finding out I have two defects in NDUFS. I've started with 5 mg and will slowly increase to 10mg; not sure yet of any effect.

    Does anyone else know anything else about NADH?
    abporter likes this.
  3. veronica_corningstone

    veronica_corningstone

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    Dr. Yasko does recommend NADH at a certain point in her program. You can search for NADH in her online book to get more details.
  4. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    I've read the same. Apparently when people feel the effects of too many methyl groups (from methylB12 mostly, but maybe from other things) they say they take NADH to make them feel better. I believe it.

    But NADH is Vitamin B3, and it does other things for you, so I think it's good to have some. I have trouble with vasoconstriction (since my 20s when I had an autoimmune issues) and my hands get cold and my nails turn blue. I take 20 mg sublingual NADH not at the same time as my methylfolate supplements, but sometimes with my methylB12. It helps my vasoconstriction issues and I think energy. I feel better when I take it and can tell if I miss it for two days.
    abporter likes this.
  5. abporter

    abporter

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    Austin, TX
    @Critterina May I ask what brand and form do you take it in and how much? I just heard some brands have more stable hydrogen content than others thus making it more effective.
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  6. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    The best NADH is the one of Professor George Birkmayer MD
    http://www.antiageingconference.com/index.html?pg=birkmayer07
    http://birkmayer-nadh.com/wordpress/?product=prof-george-birkmayer-nadh-constant-energy

    But I read that increase NO production. Do you know anythink about this ?
    http://www.nadh-apotheke.eu/NADH-Studien/THE ENERGIZING EFFECT OF NADH-COENZYME.pdf

    Here discussion of Freddd and Rich about NADH
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...causes-of-methylation-cycle-block.9397/page-3

    I'm waiting your consideration...Freddd, do you think NADH can be useful during methilation protocol and there are no problem with NO production ?

    Bye

    Daniele
    abporter likes this.
  7. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    I use Source Naturals sublingual that I buy from VitaCost online. It's in blister packs. I've generally felt good about Source Naturals, probably because my NP carries that line.
    abporter likes this.
  8. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    I think this is going to be yet another case of being in balance, vs. obliterating the methylation cycle with too much of any one thing.

    Ben Lynch says NAD is required for the conversion of oxidized glutathione to reduced glutathione (the good kind that you want). He also uses nicotinic acid to soak up methyl groups in cases of overmethylation.

    50-100mg is used to soak up methyl groups, so I would guess that supplementation below that level would be best.
    abporter likes this.
  9. abporter

    abporter

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    @daniariete2000 Interesting that you say that, a friend just hear Dr Birkmayer lecture yesterday in Albuquerque and brought back a brochure of his products. They cost 70 euros (~$95) for 60 tablets of 10mg. I'm not sure if the more stable hydrogen content is worth the cost for me at this time. However, in the brochure, he recommends ( if my memory serves me correctly as I don't have the brochure now) taking 30mg in the morning and then 30mg in the evening, not with meals. This seems to be within the range that @caledonia mentions(?). @Critterina: Have you ever taken more than 20mg? Just wondering if 20mg was prescribed or if more might or might not help.
    Critterina likes this.
  10. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    The NADH wasn't prescribed. I started taking it along with the other things recommended by Heartfixer in the subsection "Energy will falter" under CBS treatment. When I introduced folinic acid, I had serious sleepiness that started about 20 min after taking it, so I added the things for energy production. Now I know the CBS interpretation is faulty, but I figured the energy support may still have some validity, and I have had good results with the combo (NADH, L-carnitine fumarate, Co-Q10, and ribose). I started with 5 mg NADH and built up to 20.

    There were a couple of days when I was having a lot of trouble with circulation in my fingers and I took 20 mg in the morning and another 20 mg in the afternoon. I did Ok with it.

    Then a few days ago I thought it started giving me headaches, so I've stopped it. I will probably go back to it in a bit and see if that was my problem or maybe something else was giving me the headaches. Being human, it's hard to hold everything constant and only change one variable. And with it being so expensive, I'd be OK if I didn't need it anymore.

    I read about flavanols (whatever is in cocoa) increasing the nitric oxide that promotes vasodilation, so I've been using my immersion blender to mix cocoa with ribose in milk for hot chocolate. Cheaper and tastes good!
    abporter likes this.
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Critterina,

    MeCbl is not a net donator of methyl groups. The research shows it is 99% excreted unchanged within 1 to 2 days. It is part of a reaction chain that passes methyl groups along, but MeCbl is not the source. The molecular mass of CH3 is about 18 out of 1335 of MeCbl. It's not magic. It acts more like a catalyst which after participating in the reaction is itself again unchanged. Thousands of times as many CH3 groups are carried in by choline, TMG and other food items than any quantity of MeCbl as MeCbl carries it out again.

    SAM-e carries some, a great deal more than MeCbl if taken as a supplement but it travels around the circle with MeCbl, Methylfolate etc. Methylfolate is a source as long as it is taken directly as if it is synthesized by the body it is a net consumer. Since almost all MeCbl is excreted complete with CH3, it is not a net supplier. The exception is when a toxin like glutathione (in too large quantities) or cyanide nitrous oxide oxidizes the MeCbl to CyCbl or GluCbl or other forms. However, B3 in larger quantities, perhaps 100mg, who knows, does overdrive parts of the cycle and can increase the need for potassium and or Metafolin. I don't know why or how, just that is involved in some way.

    As with the other b components it needs to be titrated for best results. The activity of B1, B2 and B3 documented under folic acid and CyCbl conditions is not predictive of activity with MeCbl, AdoCbl and l-methylfolate. Good health.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2013

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