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NAC, antibiotics, methylation... help?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by NilaJones, Aug 6, 2015.

  1. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Hello everyone :).

    Methylation has done wonders for me, even though I can only tolerate tiny amounts of B12.

    I am now about to start an antibiotic protocol (cefuroxime and doxycycline for 2 months) to treat a Yersinia infection. I read about taking NAC to limit damage to mitochondria from antibiotics, and that sounded like a good idea. But today I found an old thread here that says NAC can mess up methylation. What's the latest word on that? Should I be concerned?

    I tried 600mg NAC for the first time yesterday (no antibiotics yet). It had a stimulant effect for a few hours and then a bit of a crash when it wore off. Maybe a mild histamine effect, too. Does this tell y'all anything? Methylations supps do decrease my pain level a lot, and histamine increases it.

    And what else should I take to help me deal with the antibiotics when I start them? Lots of vit C? Anything else?

    Thanks for any help :).
     
  2. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Hi Nila!
    Both cefuroxime and NAC are contraindicated by histamine intolerance, so the histamine reaction you thought your felt very well be exactly what it was. (Maintz and Novak, Histamine and Histamine Intolerance, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2007, Table 5.) Sorry I didn't notice the cefuroxime in that article earlier. NAC, I'm assuming, is the Acetylcysteine listed 5th from the bottom in that table. You may want to ride out the cefuroxime, but not make it worse with the NAC - just a thought.
    Prayers that this therapy will restore everything!
    Critterina!
     
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  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Thanks @Critterina I'd gotten very taken by a NAC conversation yesterday, then found your note re histamine. Saved me not only the money, but the potential distress. Do you know if there is a consistent link between sulfurous (high thiol) foods and histamine? I discovered my intolerance to both by tracking outbreaks on my face, some version of eczema. Removing the histamines reduced problem 50%, then removing sulfur cleared the remaining 50%.
     
  4. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Oh, dangit! I have not tried the cefuroxime yet, but my insurance company spent $$$ on it. Thank you for the heads up, @Critterina sweetie!

    @ahmo, The NAC reaction is not terrible for me so far. Not anything like grains, for example, or leftover meats.
     
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  5. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Will you be taking probiotics with your abx? That's usually a good idea.
     
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  6. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    I like that idea! I have some orthobiotic, or do people recommend something else?
     
  7. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Nila,
    Don't let that put you off it - just proceed with caution. If you don't have a histamine reaction or if you can tolerate it, it would sure be worth it to try to clear up your issues. After all, you tolerate the histamines in a lot of fruits and vegetables, things that would lay me low for days.
    Crit
     
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  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    I'm sorry, no information on that, except taking me as the one example where the two aren't linked. I don't react to sufites or thiols that I know of - although it's possible that I react only when they are really high. I had some trouble with dried sulfite-treated fruit back when I was doing the elimination diet, but not all fruit with sulfites causes a reaction (respiratory). And I have no problem with onions or garlic.
    Funny that your eczema is on your face, as mine is on my feet, and reliably in response to dietary histamines.
     
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  9. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Thank you :).

    After our convo on the phone the other day, I wonder whether histamine is even the issue for me. Yes, I react to A FEW histamine foods, like leftover meats. But for all I know, I may be reacting to them for some other reason! And my reaction does not involve an uptick in nasal allergies, nor gut symptoms...

    Am I correct in thinking that, once I start the abx, it would be bad to stop till I can add another support supp (e.g. histame) and then start again? This is why I am being so obsessive about getting ye old ducks in a row beforehand.

    Ping @msf, in case he is interested.
     
  10. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Do you mean about stopping the abx? I don´t know much about histamine problems, as I don´t seem to have any myself. I think stopping the abx would be a bad idea if you aren´t suffering from one of the significant side effects, since it takes a long time to get rid of these intracellular infections, and stopping the course early will increase the likelihood of treatment failure.
     
  11. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Sweetie,

    Confession: Whenever I hear that someone can tolerate tomatoes and spinach or wine, I do wonder if they are truly histamine intolerant. But I consider this my own bias, as in "if you don't have the exact same stuff as me, then maybe you don't deserve this diagnosis" and lump it in with other forms of prejudice that I despise and decide to be my higher self. I met a man in Colorado who said his wife was intolerant of histamines in wine that came from Napa county but not Sonoma county (two of the best wine counties north of San Francisco). Or maybe I have the counties reversed. Of course, I suspected that it might not be histamine, but you have to honor people's experience. Or in other words, keep an open mind. Lots of people with histamine issues react to foods that are histamine releasers, like oranges; I don't. That doesn't mean diddly about me NOT being histamine intolerant; it probably says something good about my mast cell stability...but I don't know enough to tell you what. I think there are so many variations on what is going on in our bodies, and we are all trying to figure it out.

    But should you be looking at a different food list? I'd say keep an open mind. Maybe it is something else, or maybe it's more than one thing. I only got as far was what I sent you.

    As for the symptoms, from what I read, symptoms are really inconsistent from person to person, and rare as histamine intolerance is (at least considered to be), respiratory symptoms like mine are even rarer. Who's to say you couldn't have joint issues? Certainly not me.

    The danger of stopping the antibiotics once you start, is that you can encourage drug resistance to develop. The course of your treatment is determined by how long it takes to kill off the the vast majority of the organisms. To begin with, the drugs kill off the weakest organisms. So if you stop after you start, only the baddest guys are there to multiply. You have to consider the probability that some of them will be resistant to the antibiotic you're taking. You want few enough of those left over that your immune system can wipe them out.

    All this to say that getting your ducks in a row before you start is a good thing. Sorry I'm so wordy today!

    Crit
     
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  12. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    That' s what I mean -- if I have bad side effects I want to have whatever I need to try and deal with them on hand. I don' t want to have to stop taking the abx while I wait for an online order to arrive!

    That's why I am posting here, to ask about preventative neasures and possible problems I could run into.

    An offline friend suggested last night that I might want to eat an anti-candida diet while on the abx, for example. Sounds wise, tho a hassle :).
     
  13. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Probably smart. A friend with a similar 2-abx regimen had to get an antifungal Rx: one pill for while she was taking the abx, one for when she finished. An urgent care doc did that, since she couldn't get in with her doc.
     
  14. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin Senior Member

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    The low histamine chef says that probiotics can raise histamine. There are a few strands which don't. I haven't done enough research to state this as fact, but it is something worth considering.
     
  15. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin Senior Member

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    I don't have rashes. I feel sickish often, but I missed that sign. To me the high adrenaline/sleep disturbance was the thing that made it obvious. I guess we are all different.
     

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