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Mycoplasma pneumonia

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by lizw118, May 5, 2010.

  1. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    Hi everyone
    I have just had a test come back with high antibodies for mycoplasma pneumonia. I have had chronic fatigue-type issues for almost fifteen years since I caught a nasty virus, then had a lot of autoimmune issues and asthma, etc. Could I have had this pneumonia for that long? Or is this probably something I have caught recently. I do have an active bronchial illness right now that is slow to heal.
    Has anyone taken antibiotics for this? I am on hydrocortisone, LDN, cytomel, and florinef.
    Could this bacteria be one of the major underlying issues?
    Thanks
    Liz
  2. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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  3. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    Hi Liz!

    Quite a coincidence; I have been looking into Mycoplasma very intensely these last few days myself, due to increasing lung problems. Not feeling too strong, but I will try to address the basic points you raised.

    Mycoplasma pneumoniae infection does not necessarily mean you have pneumonia. It can cause a form of pneumonia, but most often it seems to be present in less obvious fashion in chronic illnesses. It has been associated with asthma/COPD and other chronic pulmonary conditions, though a causal link has not been established. It is found in high percentages of ME/CFS patients, as well (as are other Mycoplasma species). It is not known what role, if any, it has in ME/CFS pathology. It could be a contributing agent, or it could be a passive opportunistic infection.

    Have you been diagnosed with CFS? Do you fit the Canadian or at least the Fukuda criteria? (It sounds like you might fit one or both).

    What antibodies were you high in - IgM or IgG? And how high over the reference range? Elevated IgM is indicative of a more acute current infection, while elevated IgG suggests either a current, chronic, or past infection (if IgM is negative and IgG positive, you most likely do not have an acute infection, but at most a 'low-level' chronic one, and at least past exposure to the pathogen). It is hard to tell how long you have had Mycoplasma even if you knew all this, as it may have been hanging around in your system for years without causing problems and only recently found an opportunity to grow and establish an acute infection.

    Acute Mycoplasma infections are treated with antibiotics. I've heard of at least a couple specialists (there are probably more) who prescribe antibiotics just for elevated Mycoplasma IgG (and normal IgM).

    By the way, the antibody tests for Mycoplasma are not widely considered to be all that sensitive. Garth Nicholson, who has studied Mycoplasma a lot, recommends a PCR test instead. His website has more info, including research papers on the general subject:
    http://www.immed.org/index.htm
    (articles available at the link ixchelkali provided: http://www.immed.org/illness/fatigue_illness_research.html)

    Nicholson thinks Mycoplasma plays a much larger role in ME/CFS and other disease than just about anyone else does, however. (Though not too many others are actively researching it.)
  4. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    Hi Dr. Yes
    Thanks for the info. Are you going to get tested for this?
    I haven't officially been diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, but I have many of the same health conditions that cfs people have, so I think I pretty much have it. I have hashimotos thyroiditis, adrenal fatigue, P.O.T.S., asthma, and general weakness/fatigue
    The one that was high for me was the IGg level, which was 2.53
    The ranges are
    < 0.90 for negative
    .91-1.09 for equivocal
    > 1.10 for positive
    So I am in the positive category, although I don't know by how much.
    So I guess this means it is an older infection.
    I really hope my doctor puts me on antibiotics for this. Is that what you will do if you are positive?
    Thanks
    Liz
  5. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    Hi ixchelkali
    I have read some of Garth Nicholson's papers, which I found very interesting, and I am going to take some in to my doctor. What about any possible health problems coming from long term use of antibiotics? Is that an issue? I am inclined to try them, but I don't want to make things worse.
    Thanks
    Liz
  6. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    Liz~
    An IgG of 2.53 is not hugely elevated at all. Most people are probably in that range. I have CMVs and Parvos in the 5-7 range and the doctors aren't concerned at all. If it was closer to 15-20 then that might indicate a problem. I'm just sharing how my doctors interpret my labs. If I had a IgG of 2.53 for mycoplasma I would not be concerned. But that is me.
    Best, Timaca
  7. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    I've already tested IgG positive (not IgM) - around the same level as you have - for the last few years.

    Sounds similar to many patients on this and other forums... do you experience the infamous post-exertional malaise, or any cognitive dysfunction?

    It is hard to know the level of infection; antibody tests don't often accurately reflect that. Quantitative PCR tests are more useful, though I don't know offhand if they have any for Mycoplasma.

    If your IgM was negative, it is more likely an older infection - but not necessarily; as I mentioned earlier, serology tests for Mycoplasma just aren't very accurate... also, IgM levels often drop after an infection has been around for a few months and is no longer acute, so it may not be that old. But again, old (perhaps years old) is most likely.

    I have to be careful with antibiotics because of some of my other problems (esp. GI), including recurrent Candidiasis, which thrives when you take antibiotics... so I won't take them unless I test positive by a PCR test. (That is, if my insurance will COVER the PCR test.. a Mycoplasma species panel is $395 at VIPdx!)

    Btw, have you ever been tested for Aspergillosis allergy? (via blood test)
  8. JT1024

    JT1024 Senior Member

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    Just an FYI on Mycoplasma...

    You're probablly already aware of the different types of Mycoplasma. Most labs do not test for all of them. That is the reason for the VIPDx cost....they do test for all of them.

    One of the Mycoplasmas, M. fermentans, has been indicated in Gulf War Syndrome. According to info that may or may not be on Nicholson's site, it was "manufactured" for use in biological warfare and a US doctor has patent rights on it.

    While you mention the nasty side effects of antibiotic use Dr. Yes, probiotics are critical to prevent Candida overgrowth. I'm sure you already know that but I'm just stating it for those that do not!


    Here is some info on the Mycoplasma fermentans... I did not write this.. just copyied....


    I - PATHOGENIC MYCOPLASMA

    A Common Disease Agent Weaponised

    There are 200 species of Mycoplasma. Most are innocuous and do no harm; only four or five are pathogenic. Mycoplasma fermentans (incognitus strain) probably comes from the nucleus of the Brucella bacterium. This disease agent is not a bacterium and not a virus; it is a mutated form of the Brucella bacterium, combined with a visna virus, from which the mycoplasma is extracted.

    The pathogenic Mycoplasma used to be very innocuous, but biological warfare research conducted between 1942 and the present time has resulted in the creation of more deadly and infectious forms of Mycoplasma. Researchers extracted this mycoplasma from the Brucella bacterium and actually reduced the disease to a crystalline form. They "weaponised" it and tested it on an unsuspecting public in North America.

    Dr Maurice Hilleman, chief virologist for the pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp & Dohme, stated that this disease agent is now carried by everybody in North America and possibly most people throughout the world.

    Despite reporting flaws, there has clearly been an increased incidence of all the neuro/systemic degenerative diseases since World War II and especially since the 1970s with the arrival of previously unheard-of diseases like chronic fatigue syndrome and AIDS.


    According to Dr Shyh-Ching Lo, senior researcher at The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and one of Americas top mycoplasma researchers, this disease agent causes many illnesses including AIDS, cancer, chronic fatigue syndrome, Crohns colitis, Type I diabetes, multiple sclerosis, Parkinsons disease, Wegeners disease and collagen-vascular diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and Alzheimers.

    (If I read everything correctly, this Dr Shyh-Ching Lo even has patents on these mycoplasmas.)


    Dr Charles Engel, who is with the US National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland, stated the following at an NIH meeting on February 7, 2000: "I am now of the view that the probable cause of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia is the mycoplasma..."

    I have all the official documents to prove that mycoplasma is the disease agent in chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia as well as in AIDS, multiple sclerosis and many other illnesses. Of these, 80% are US or Canadian official government documents, and 20% are articles from peer-reviewed journals such as the Journal of the American Medical Association, New England Journal of Medicine and the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal articles and government documents complement each other.
  9. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    Hey JT

    I am assuming the above paragraph is part of what you copied..

    Do you have the link for this information? If it is true, it would be rather a big deal, eh?!
  10. JT1024

    JT1024 Senior Member

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    Here are some interesting links... From a quick perusal of some of the information, the quote about "having the documentation" is from a Canadian researching all the illnesses attributed to Mycoplasma. I should have copied the excerpt with his name.

    Found a link with his name here: http://www.whale.to/m/scott7.html#Blood_Test_

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC470652/

    http://www.thearthritiscenter.com/pub_multiplex.htm

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10691196?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12879275?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=7933
  11. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    Hi Timaca
    Well that is nice to hear. Thanks. But how do you know it isn't high and why would you not be concerned? When you say that most people would probably have that amount, do you mean most cfs people? Or most people in general?
    Thanks
    Liz
  12. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    Thanks for the info JT. It's all a bit too :eek: for me to handle right now... reads like sci-fi doesn't it?

    Hey Liz.. the serology tests are not that reliable, and Mycoplasma is effective at hiding from the immune system, so the best bet if you want to be more certain before trying antibiotics remains a PCR test -- if you can afford it. Not sure I can, but I was planning on robbing a bank anyway..
  13. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Hi everyone....I have M. Pneumoniae. When I finally found a doctor that tested me for this, it found that I was IgG positive at 930. Negative is less than 100, Indeterminate is 100-320 and positive is more than 320. She told me that the symptoms can be identical to MS and RA. I started antibiotics and became so ill I literally thought I was going to die. I pushed through this and came out the other end 90% better. This is not to say I am cured. 90%, from where I came from is still pretty messed up. ;( I was sure, for many years, I had both MS or RA as my symptoms where, indeed, identical. When my daughter was three years old she got Mono and I was worried that I passed the mycoplasma on to her when she was born so I showed these results to her docter asking if she would test her for this along with the mono test. She looked at my results and said I did not have a mycoplasmal infection. Point is....different doctors can read these results in very different ways. I have read that mycoplasma is very tough to find and good at hiding. A doctor that has little knowledge in this area may not see the connection. However...my doc saw all my symptoms and the test results and concluded that I had this infection for sometime.

    Recently, my twin sister was diagnosed with lyme disease (and M. Pneumoniae). This makes me wonder if my antibiotics were working on the mycoplasma or if I did have lyme like my sister. I was tested for lyme every six weeks for over a year with one band showing. My most recent test showed no bands. It makes me wonder if the antibiotics were working on the mycoplasma...possible lyme infection...or both. Ok....I know this post has turned into something that is totally unhelpful. :) Anyway...this is my experience with mycoplasma. I strongly encourage anyone who shows a positive test for this to try antibiotics. I have been on them for over a year and it is still not gone but numbers are better. I know if I had not started this treatment I would be bedbound right now.
  14. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

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    pluto
    i have no idea what this is Mycoplasma pneumonia.

    But i was seriously ill and kept in isolation (quaruntine) for 6 weeks at 8mnths old dx'd with brocho-phuemonia, i would have had an older sister if she had not died of phenumonia at 5months old.
  15. Francelle

    Francelle Senior Member

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    Myco. Pn.

    In 2005 - 2006 I had a dreadful cough and my GP tested me for Myco. Pneumoniae. At that time the titre was positive at 320. Not hugely elevated but I was very sick. After hospitalisation and five antibiotics, both oral and IV, the cough gradually improved. Then a few months later all my other M.E./Fibro symptoms started in 2007.

    The cough returned in early 2008 so I eventually asked for another Myco. Pn. test and it came back positive again but this time the titre was only 120 (normal < 40). Another hospitalisation and an astute Indian doctor in the Emergency Department ordered an HRCT (High Resonance CT scan). His provisional diagnosis was proved correct that I had Bronchiectasis in both lungs.

    After discharge I went to a Pulmonology Professor (who is also a lung transplant surgeon). He ordered a lot of further testing, Bronchoscopy etc. and other tests to try to account for all my other M.E/Fibro symptoms which hadn't been really diagnosed at that stage. He then prescribed several months of the antibiotic, Azithromycin. Bingo!

    Eventually the cough and all that went with Bronchiectasis went by late 2008. The Bronchiectasis will be permanent but at least that tiring cough has gone for now! All I can assume is that the Myco.Pn. has gone and won't be back!!!

    I hope that you get some good treatment and feel a lot better soon.
  16. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    Hi Liz~
    I don't think it's high based on what my doctors say about other pathogens that they test me for, using that reference range, and they aren't concerned with numbers in the 5-7s (where my other pathogens are). I think most people (including healthy) have a number as what you got. You can call and ask your lab director what would be a concerning number. Or ask your doctor for his opinion. I have been tested for M. pneumonia, and that IgG result came back at 1:64 which was high and meant antibody detected by that lab. In talking with an assistant of a mycoplasma specialist, he gets concerned when titers are 1:200 or above...then he starts thinking there may be a problem. I just had another M. pneumonia test run, for my son had pneumonia, and I did get ill (not with pneumonia, but CNS wise). So, the doctors are checking for lots of things. For my other infectious pathogens, the doctors get concerned when my antibody titers are in the 1:300 or above range....I have several pathogens in that category...

    Best, Timaca
  17. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    I am so grateful for all of the replies on this thread. It is hard to know whether or not treating with antibiotics is the right choice. My Dr. is usually cautious so I doubt he will want to treat it if my numbers are not very high. All of my troubles started with a virus, though, and I still have horrible mucus production constantly, asthma, etc. all these years later. It makes me wonder if taking antibiotics would help these things.
    Liz
  18. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

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    I have been helped greatly with clarithromycin, my doc wont prescribe it long term, so we buy it online. Docrecoomended it because I had had so many problems with other antibiotics.

    Its not expensive and I am helped by an initial couple of days of 2x100-150 and then 50mgx 1or2 depending on symptoms.

    Ask yr Docs if they think its worth a go, Its cheap and I'm pretty sure its common. Many ppl with Lymes have benfited from it, I dont have a lymes DX just FM and MCS.

    Originally when i started to get a lot of chest infections, nights sweats and wheeziness, my Doc gave me asthma puffas, which didnt help, and actually made things worse as I am sensitive to the chemiclas in them and it casued a lot of inflamation.

    GoodLuck
  19. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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  20. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Did anyone try treating mycoplasma or know where to find Dr Nicolsons treatment for it? Thanks

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