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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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My visit with UK specialist who can diagnose MCAS

Allyb510

Senior Member
Messages
181
Location
Scotland
There are NO compounding pharmacies in the UK apart from one that does bio identical hormones. Its a real pain because Ketotifen helps me, but I also react to it whenever I try and increase the dose, and I can take some antihistamine brands but not others...

I have an apt fro Dr Croom in June, but your experience has not filled me with hope - especially as I have a clinical Lyme dx and have terrible drug reactions, and am on keotifen and antihistamines already for some time...

@ryan31337 - I got the impression from others that Dr Grattan was a bit hit and miss so thought Dr Croom would be a better fit. Dr S was top of my list but I hear he is VERY expensive and doesn't communicate well with GPs etc.

If I still get no joy we may head over to MN in a year or two and see of Dr Croom might work with Dr Afrin. Im convinced MCAS is causing a lot of my symptoms, possibly even the fatigue and I don't feel secure in my Lyme dx as all testing was negative.

Ditto with me for many things Justy. For example, I can take the Sando brand of bisoprolol for my BP but other brands I've reacted to. I can't up the dose in it either. I'm on a slippery slope with it.

And does anyone know why they add these horrible blue dyes to antibiotic capsules? Dyes and colourings bother me a lot.

Well, I think she'll be ok with you because you've experienced improvement already from your meds which confirms there are mast issues.

I get what you're saying, but you do have the Lyme coinfections, don't you?

Dr. Afrin is the man but he lives miles away!
 

Allyb510

Senior Member
Messages
181
Location
Scotland
I never trust supplements off Amazon. I'm never sure of who's selling them.....

It gave me a migraine, I felt drunk, dizzy, disorientated, stomach pain, nausea and diarrhoea.....

I think there's a facebook group for pea seedlings for DAO. Apparently growing them in the dark produces more DAO...

I like gardening but now doing it in the dark requires space I don't have.

I never understand the need for the additives that are put in pills... like dyes. Does my body really care if the pill is off white or a pretty red?!

You are so right about that. Usually I don't buy from unreliable sources so I don't know why I overrode my usual wariness.

That reaction sounds pretty unpleasant. It's just that I've heard "a light has been turned on" in the brains of some autistic children.

I better get on to that facebook group and check it out. I'm serious. I haven't had peas in years...hopefully I wouldn't react.

It's probably red for danger, for us...
 

Allyb510

Senior Member
Messages
181
Location
Scotland
I never trust supplements off Amazon. I'm never sure of who's selling them.....

It gave me a migraine, I felt drunk, dizzy, disorientated, stomach pain, nausea and diarrhoea.....

I think there's a facebook group for pea seedlings for DAO. Apparently growing them in the dark produces more DAO...

I like gardening but now doing it in the dark requires space I don't have.

I never understand the need for the additives that are put in pills... like dyes. Does my body really care if the pill is off white or a pretty red?!

Plum, is the facebook group you're referring to Histamine Intolerance DAO Deficiency? Thanx
 

justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
Do any of you follow a low histamine diet and, if so, what do you normally eat?

I do - for about a year and a half now. I follow this list loosely, although some things in the not allowed I can eat and vice versa.

http://www.mastocytosis.ca/MSC HT Restricted Diet Nov2012.pdf

I don't eat any spices at all as they make me itch and flush straight away, no hard cheese, but I do eat ricotta, mozzarella and mascarpone. No vinegar or anything pickled, nothing fermented so no yoghurt or probiotics etc only frozen fish - Tesco cod fillets and salmon fillets are flash frozen at sea so may be alright for some. No tomatoes or green beans, I do eat red lentils but sometimes they make me itch and sometimes they don't. No red beans, but white beans like cannalini beans and chick peas are ok. no citrus. sometimes mushrooms are ok, sometimes not. No walnuts or pecans or mangos for me.

A typical day:
Breakfast apples and pears with mascarpone and flaked almonds or quinoa porridge with full fat milk and apple

Lunch - salad with quorn slices and mozzarella or homemeade veg and lentil; soup (I freeze lots in portions for when I cant make lunch)

Dinner - Quinoa with stir fried vegetables (no soy sauce, just salt) with either tofu, halloumi or quorn as a protein.

Im a veggie and im also doing low (not no) carb. Most days are like the one above. sometimes I have a baked potato instead or eggs or even chips!
 

ryan31337

Senior Member
Messages
664
Location
South East, England
Forgive me @ryan31337 but I'm going to have to say "OMG", are you joking? That testing is pricey! But brilliant you managed to get your insurance to cover. Interesting the doctor says many tests for MCAS are unreliable. Is there such a thing as a reliable test to diagnose any condition, I wonder? Lyme testing is unreliable too...
Hi @Allyb510,
I think the tests are considered unreliable mostly due to the time and handling constraints of the sample. You're not likely to see elevated values unless in the midst of a reaction, and also reliant on the samples being immediately frozen and handled properly later on.

I take it that Prostaglandin D2 will be different than the serum Prostaglandin E2 test I had recently which came back high? I must research this. Do you experience anaphylactoid reactions but not full ana?
I vaguely recall various Prostaglandin tests being discussed in Dr Afrin's book "Never Bet Against Occam" - can't remember his views but the book is well worth reading if you haven't already

Yes, I think I fit that description.
https://www.aaaai.org/Aaaai/media/MediaLibrary/PDF Documents/Immunotherapy Forms/7b-World-Allergy-Organization-Systemic-Reaction-Grading-systemx.pdf
I would be grade 2 here. Normal reactions include cutaneous, upper respiratory & gastrointestinal. Its possible that at my worst I was edging higher as I had some isolated episodes of breathlessness & severe hypertension, but I have POTS and other stuff going on so perhaps they were to blame (if not already directly involved triggering the damned mast cells!)

@ryan31337 - I got the impression from others that Dr Grattan was a bit hit and miss so thought Dr Croom would be a better fit. Dr S was top of my list but I hear he is VERY expensive and doesn't communicate well with GPs etc.

Im convinced MCAS is causing a lot of my symptoms, possibly even the fatigue and I don't feel secure in my Lyme dx as all testing was negative.
Hi @justy,
Yes, I noticed that too. I think the good reports outweigh the bad ones. He was polite and respectful but also, how shall I say, 'very experienced'...I wonder if that equates to being a bit old school and perhaps he didn't take kindly to someone walking in and demanding a diagnosis of MCAS because they read about it on the internet. Pure conjecture though...

Do any of you follow a low histamine diet and, if so, what do you normally eat?
Much like @justy I can eat some foods considered high histamine. Things like aubergine, avocado and nuts. But without fail I will react to fermented foods, slow cooked foods, left overs. Seafood is complete russian roulette so also better off without.

Edit: Forgot to say, I can also reliably trigger reactions through orthostasis/exertion. HyperPOTS suspected, so apparently not that unusual...
 

justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
Yes, I think I fit that description.
https://www.aaaai.org/Aaaai/media/MediaLibrary/PDF Documents/Immunotherapy Forms/7b-World-Allergy-Organization-Systemic-Reaction-Grading-systemx.pdf
I would be grade 2 here. Normal reactions include cutaneous, upper respiratory & gastrointestinal. Its possible that at my worst I was edging higher as I had some isolated episodes of breathlessness & severe hypertension, but I have POTS and other stuff going on so perhaps they were to blame (if not already directly involved triggering the damned mast cells!)

I cant find it anywhere on any chart, but my severe (not the regular small daily ones which put me at a near constant 1 or 2) reactions involve severe impending doom, as noted at the bottom of the chart, but my other symptoms are mainly CNS based - jerking arms and legs, head shaking uncontrollably, muscles spasming and tensing up in strong contractions - it looks like a seizure, but I am fully conscious and can talk a little. My head feels like its in a vice and I cant sit or stand - feel terribly dizzy, but I have NO throat constricting or tongue swelling etc, although I do get flushing.

Other patients have told me they have exactly the same, but it is not acknowledged anywhere I can see in print.
 

Plum

Senior Member
Messages
512
Location
UK
Well that was pretty self explanatory Plum. I should have picked up on that!
I never knew it existed until recently. Haven't spent much time on it though since I found out I have to grow in the dark....
 

Allyb510

Senior Member
Messages
181
Location
Scotland
I do - for about a year and a half now. I follow this list loosely, although some things in the not allowed I can eat and vice versa.

http://www.mastocytosis.ca/MSC HT Restricted Diet Nov2012.pdf

I don't eat any spices at all as they make me itch and flush straight away, no hard cheese, but I do eat ricotta, mozzarella and mascarpone. No vinegar or anything pickled, nothing fermented so no yoghurt or probiotics etc only frozen fish - Tesco cod fillets and salmon fillets are flash frozen at sea so may be alright for some. No tomatoes or green beans, I do eat red lentils but sometimes they make me itch and sometimes they don't. No red beans, but white beans like cannalini beans and chick peas are ok. no citrus. sometimes mushrooms are ok, sometimes not. No walnuts or pecans or mangos for me.

A typical day:
Breakfast apples and pears with mascarpone and flaked almonds or quinoa porridge with full fat milk and apple

Lunch - salad with quorn slices and mozzarella or homemeade veg and lentil; soup (I freeze lots in portions for when I cant make lunch)

Dinner - Quinoa with stir fried vegetables (no soy sauce, just salt) with either tofu, halloumi or quorn as a protein.

Im a veggie and im also doing low (not no) carb. Most days are like the one above. sometimes I have a baked potato instead or eggs or even chips!

Thanks for that. I have similar issues with spices so my food is bland, bland bland! I feel it makes you eat more in a way because there is nothing flavourful to satisfy your tastebuds.

The other day I thought I would risk trying a vinegar/lemon/cinnamon hair rinse, in an effort to naturally lighten my hair, since I can't get to the hairdresser, ever. Immediately I became blotchy, scarlet, and breathless for ages. Never again.

Tesco salmon fillets are a bit pale and anaemic but actually quite tasty and I have them with soft goat's cheese. Will definitely try the cod next. Well, I do react badly to tomatoes and have a classic allergy to lentils, but was hoping to try green beans. Sad to hear that they cause issues but maybe I will be able to tolerate a few. I used to have a massive chick pea fetish and would eat them every day (Hummus is my fav food. Must have Middle Eastern DNA in there somewhere.) Then I had a massive crash which involved having to throw all current foods and supplements out of my diet.

Do you ever try almond butter? I would love some on an oat cake right about now. All grains cause me a lot of issues but I love them. Have a classic allergy to wheat and potatoes, but maybe sweet potato. Can't eat hen's eggs but will try 4 or 5 quail's eggs and sweet potato chips.

That breakfast sounds delicious actually. Will give it a try.

I though quorn and tofu were high in histamine but needs must if you are a veggie. Do the family eat meat? I should do more freezing of food. I've been too knackered (and lazy) to do that and so have eaten lots of leftovers which is obviously a no no.

Well that's great 'food for thought' and will check out the masto website for more ideas of what I can't have... ;-)
 

Allyb510

Senior Member
Messages
181
Location
Scotland
Facetiousness aside, just checked that webpage Justy and it will be a brill resource for me to use. Gutted that sweet potatoes are on the restricted list though! ;(
 

Allyb510

Senior Member
Messages
181
Location
Scotland
Hi @Allyb510,

I think the tests are considered unreliable mostly due to the time and handling constraints of the sample. You're not likely to see elevated values unless in the midst of a reaction, and also reliant on the samples being immediately frozen and handled properly later on.

That makes sense Ryan. I've read that patients sometimes do things to bring on a reaction, if they know their levels are being tested.

I vaguely recall various Prostaglandin tests being discussed in Dr Afrin's book "Never Bet Against Occam" - can't remember his views but the book is well worth reading if you haven't already

Interesting. I have Dr. Afrin's book on Justy's recommendation and I see he says about Prostaglandin D2 "...an inflammatory mediator produced by mast cells...if a specimen has been carefully chilled...and an elevated level is found...it is a pretty reliable sign that a heightened state of mast cell activation is present..."

Yes, I think I fit that description.

https://www.aaaai.org/Aaaai/media/MediaLibrary/PDF Documents/Immunotherapy Forms/7b-World-Allergy-Organization-Systemic-Reaction-Grading-systemx.pdf

I would be grade 2 here. Normal reactions include cutaneous, upper respiratory & gastrointestinal. Its possible that at my worst I was edging higher as I had some isolated episodes of breathlessness & severe hypertension, but I have POTS and other stuff going on so perhaps they were to blame (if not already directly involved triggering the damned mast cells!)

Thanks for that Ryan. I hadn't seen that excellent document before and I've saved it on my laptop. Do you think the UK docs use this scale in their evaluations? I would say I'm a Grade 2 also, although I have oral allergy, which makes the throat swell and so confuses the issue. Do you take your blood pressure at home during reactions? I find I get very agitated and can't think straight during reactions so ideally someone else is needed to take over.

Hi @justy,
Yes, I noticed that too. I think the good reports outweigh the bad ones. He was polite and respectful but also, how shall I say, 'very experienced'...I wonder if that equates to being a bit old school and perhaps he didn't take kindly to someone walking in and demanding a diagnosis of MCAS because they read about it on the internet. Pure conjecture though...

You know, I sometimes think most doctors would prefer you to sit home suffering in silence rather than approach them with an hypothesis of your own. Possibly they see it as challenging their authority. In my experience, you have to spell things out in the plainest possible terms! I told Dr. Croom that I thought I had MCAS and she was ok with it. But all the GPs in my surgery give you the frosty stare.

Much like @justy I can eat some foods considered high histamine. Things like aubergine, avocado and nuts. But without fail I will react to fermented foods, slow cooked foods, left overs. Seafood is complete russian roulette so also better off without.

Isn't it interesting how we're all the same but also different? I've had a terrible reaction to avocado and would never eat again. Fermented is tricky. Are probiotics a no go area for you? Or certain ones only? I notice the same with leftovers in a big way...it made a difference when I quartered a portion of raw lamb mince and froze the separate sections. I just bring a section out, cook and eat, rather than having leftover cooked lamb which was making me itch like crazy.

Edit: Forgot to say, I can also reliably trigger reactions through orthostasis/exertion. HyperPOTS suspected, so apparently not that unusual...

Yes, I have reactions through exertion too. Also, when I've been out in the cold and wind I'll be breathless for ages after. Or if I've had a cold drink, but sometimes even a hot one. It's so annoying. It's bad enough having a severely curtailed diet but I can't stand tepid drinks!!

What is HyperPOTS Ryan? I don't like the sound of that! Sorry this has gone on so long...
 

ryan31337

Senior Member
Messages
664
Location
South East, England
What is HyperPOTS Ryan? I don't like the sound of that! Sorry this has gone on so long...

Hi @Allyb510,

Take a look at this resource, specifically the Pathophysiology of POTS section, for a more complete explanation than I could give: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4664448/

Some researchers have taken it even further than that by breaking it down into sub-sets depending on blood flow characteristics. Perhaps a bit too far to be useful to us patients though I think.

Ryan
 

justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
@Allyb510 Quorn is not high H, but Tofu is - I only eat it once a week. Im not eating carbs at the moment so even though I can eat almond butter I don't know what to eat it with!

My whole family are veggie, including all 4 of my kids, two of their partners, their children, my husband my mum, my mother in law, my brother and sister!
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
976
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
Hi All.

I was recently evaluated for MCAS by Dr. Alexandra Croom at the Spire Hospital in Leicester. I'm posting this for the other crazily reactive PWME out there who want to rule this out.

Dr. Croom is one of the few allergy specialists in the UK who is capable of a definitive diagnosis of MCAS. Sadly, she did not provide this in my case...she said it was highly likely that I had MCAS but that my history of classic allergy and suspected Lyme was clouding the issue.

Dr Croom is pleasant and no nonsense. She lets you tell your story first and then asks questions. She told me I was a complicated case (hmmm) and that I'd have to "cross the Rubicon" and get over my aversion to trying new medicines and foods, if I wanted to improve. She gave me a brief physical examination, presumably looking for eczema and urticaria, which there was none of that day, of course.

The only investigation I had was a tryptase test. Ideally she would have done a "full workup" on me but said the hospital wouldn't be set up to do that for at least another month. Bear that in mind if you're thinking of scheduling an appointment. Oh, and if you do make an appointment, be sure to mention MCAS as they allot an hour for that, as opposed to half an hour for other appointments.

To start with, I'm to take an antihistamine for a month (if I can find one I tolerate) and see how I go. I will then ease in sodium cromoglycate before meals and we will re-evaluate the situation. Dr. Croom has a special interest in food allergy so it is useful if that is your problem.

Once the tryptase result is known, we may pursue getting further assays of mast cell mediators. She said patients generally respond favourably to relatively low intervention treatments.

My potential Lyme diagnosis interested Dr. Croom as she hadn't come across a patient with this before. I told her I was a member of a site where there were quite a few patients with both Lyme and MCAS. She seemed unaware that there was any sort of correlation between the two.

Anyway, Dr. Croom has requested I update her when I receive my Lyme results, which is reassuring.

Good luck if you decide to go this route. It's pricey but worth having the diagnosis and support in place, for when you need drugs and supplements to treat your other conditions.

(Today I received a copy of her letter to my GP. Unfortunately the original had been sent to another surgery in town! That will be the fault of Spire Hospital grrr.)

Hi.
What made you investigate MCAS initially.
I have angioedema last 22 years and loaded with histamine continuously.
Thanks.
 

Allyb510

Senior Member
Messages
181
Location
Scotland
Hi.
What made you investigate MCAS initially.
I have angioedema last 22 years and loaded with histamine continuously.
Thanks.

Hi @gregh286.

A number of things really...for a long time I've been highly reactive and, although I'm atopic and have oral allergy, I've always felt something additional was at work here. I was vaguely aware of Mast Cell Disease but hadn't ever investigated it. For many years I wondered if it was my small bowel bacterial overgrowth and gut dysbiosis that were causing this ridiculous number of reactions, but then a nutritionist who specialised in this area told me that, in all the years she'd been consulting, she'd never met a patient with as many sensitivities as I had.

When I joined Phoenix Rising, other members with both ME and MCAS recognised that I had similar symptoms to theirs, and suggested that maybe I should consider the diagnosis. The penny dropped with me then and suddenly I could see that many of my symptoms fit this syndrome very well: flushing, bruising, itching, dizziness, faintness, palpitations, intestinal discomfort, nausea, throat tightness, brain fog, poor memory, headaches, wheezing, breathlessness, conjunctivitis, fatigue, (food, drug and chemical) intolerances, intolerance of cold, osteoporosis (in my case), bone pain, pseudoanaphylaxis. (Of course there's also an overlap of symptoms with my other conditions which complicates things.) I knew I'd have to take drugs and supplements in the future for the suspected Lyme and wanted to get some support in place to allow me to tolerate these.

So, I thought I'd better not wait any longer to be evaluated. I wish I'd done it years ago. I did try to see an allergist in 2008 but MCAS wasn't widely known and accepted by the medical profession then, so it was pretty much a worthless visit.

You are atopic then? Do you take any meds just now? If you feel that you're pretty much continuously reactive then it might very well be worthwhile seeing a MCAS specialist. It's quite expensive but having the diagnosis is worth a lot. Some members of PR have specialists who liaise with their GPs to help ensure they are prescribed safely.