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My trip to see Professor De Meirleir (long post)

justy

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@JAM - no not preachy or bossy, i'ts your experience and I respect that. However I wont be eating any animals. it is entire;ly against my nature and it is far more likely that I have chronic anaemia due to my health conditions than from not eating meat - anaemia is very common in people with Lupus for example - which I am now being investigated for as I have a positive ANA.

My entire family is vegetarian - my mum, sister and brother as well as my 4 children. My eldest sons ex patner is a vegetarian and so is their daughter and her mum, my daughters partner is a lifelong vegetarian. My husband and his mother are vegetarians. I made the compromise and eat fish about once a week, but its not going to go further than that. Family events in our families are so easy - its the odd meat eater that feels left out!
 

JAM

Jill
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421
@JAM - no not preachy or bossy, i'ts your experience and I respect that. However I wont be eating any animals. it is entire;ly against my nature and it is far more likely that I have chronic anaemia due to my health conditions than from not eating meat - anaemia is very common in people with Lupus for example - which I am now being investigated for as I have a positive ANA.

My entire family is vegetarian - my mum, sister and brother as well as my 4 children. My eldest sons ex patner is a vegetarian and so is their daughter and her mum, my daughters partner is a lifelong vegetarian. My husband and his mother are vegetarians. I made the compromise and eat fish about once a week, but its not going to go further than that. Family events in our families are so easy - its the odd meat eater that feels left out!
I understand, most of my friends are vegetarians. That is why it was so difficult for me to transition.

I hope you find some answers and treatments that help soon!
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
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5,875
I would LOVE to be vegetarian again but I really find meat helps me. I feel awful for eating it too...I live with my mom, who has never tasted meat (very common in India). I do eat mostly organic when I eat it...not that that makes a huge difference morally.

That being said, I am sure taking iron, Omega, and B12 supplements, as well as eating fish, would suffice.

My elderly mom has long standing anemia and the docs cannot find anything wrong to cause it. Interestingly, we were buying the expensive Ferrimax which does not cause GI issues, until her specialist told her that the cheap iron is better because it absorbs much better.
 

ukxmrv

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Justy, have you always reacted badly to antibiotics or this is a new "ME" thing or just those particular ones?
 

justy

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Justy, have you always reacted badly to antibiotics or this is a new "ME" thing or just those particular ones?
Ive never reacted to any antibiotic before this time. I have had gastric distress with a couple that led to me swapping for different ones. I don't think I would ever have been given rifampin before though - Doxy I had in the summer and it is really great for my breathing issues - clears them up straight away - but when I took it in the summer for 7 days I was also on prednisolone, 30mg a day the whole time and diazepam to deal with the reaction to the steroids (near psychosis - but I couldn't breathe so had to). My reactions to things seems to be worsening...often have trouble with supplements - they frequently make me wired or give me palpitations.
 

Valentijn

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Justy, have you always reacted badly to antibiotics or this is a new "ME" thing or just those particular ones?
I took doxycycline for a week more than 6 month ago, with no side effects. This time when I started it (after IV antibiotics), I immediately got intense neurological "motion sickness" triggered by looking at the TV or computer screen. It hits me starting about 30 minutes after taking it every morning.
 

Gingergrrl

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16,171
@justy Sorry if you already said this but can you contact KDM's clinic now, instead of waiting for your appt at the end of Nov, so he can advise? I am so sorry to hear about all the trouble you are having with the antibiotics!
 

justy

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@justy Sorry if you already said this but can you contact KDM's clinic now, instead of waiting for your appt at the end of Nov, so he can advise? I am so sorry to hear about all the trouble you are having with the antibiotics!
Yes - I e mailed on Sunday, but no reply yet - they are very busy. I have definitely decided not to take anymore after speaking to my GP who feels it is allergic reaction and not a good idea to continue. I will have a few days off, then try the clarithromycin - although if he still wants me to take this if I cant take the Doxy I don't know.

In the end I guess my treatment is going to take longer, be slower, more difficult than even I imagined.
 

Thinktank

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1,640
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Europe
@justy, my girlfriend has exactly the same reaction to doxy. After one dose she got intense pruritus all over her body to an unbearable level. She is also allergic to cephalosporins and tinidazole. Azithromycin causes only a mild reaction. It's been two weeks now since she completely stopped all abx and the pruritus is finally subsiding. Some are just very allergic to all kinds of antibiotics. Maybe you can try a herbal protocol until you're ready to start IV abx.
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
@justy, sorry to hear about the drug intolerances. It's very frustrating to have infections but not be able to tolerate the treatments for them. I took clarithromycin once, a couple of years ago, and had a severe reaction. It might have been a Herx but I wasn't brave enough to continue. May be best to take these abx when there are family members around in case action is required.
 

justy

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@justy, sorry to hear about the drug intolerances. It's very frustrating to have infections but not be able to tolerate the treatments for them. I took clarithromycin once, a couple of years ago, and had a severe reaction. It might have been a Herx but I wasn't brave enough to continue. May be best to take these abx when there are family members around in case action is required.
Yes I always take when someone around - part of the reason it takes so long to trial them is only me and husband and kids here in remote area and he works full time as well as running kids around etc

This whole herx v reaction thing is a nightmare - am thinking about private testing for drug allergies - then at least will know if true allergy, side effect or herx. Side effects such as itching can be put up with if you know it is not a big problem, but if you think is an allergic reaction is scary to carry on.

KDM said today to switch to Clarithromycin with minocycline. Still got to try the C. Oh why is it so complicated?
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
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15,786
KDM said today to switch to Clarithromycin with minocycline. Still got to try the C. Oh why is it so complicated?
I haven't had any side-effects with the Clarithromycin. Just the fevers and hypotension starting an hour or two after each dose - a typical herxheimer reaction. Hopefully the minocycline works out better than the doxy! It certainly can't taste any worse than doxy :vomit:
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
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4,856
Clarithromycin tasted like poison. Took almost a day for the metallic taste to wear off after my one and only dose. :eek:
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
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5,875
I think the longer your disease has gone on and the more messed up your gut is, the worse it is when you take antibiotics. I had such bad reactions to several antibiotics also (mostly SEVERE diarrhea) that I had to stop some of them. Two CFS/Lyme specialists told me that they had not seen these reactions in other patients.
 

Gingergrrl

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Messages
16,171
am thinking about private testing for drug allergies - then at least will know if true allergy, side effect or herx. Side effects such as itching can be put up with if you know it is not a big problem, but if you think is an allergic reaction is scary to carry on.

KDM said today to switch to Clarithromycin with minocycline. Still got to try the C. Oh why is it so complicated?

I think the allergy testing is a good idea so you will know if the itching is dangerous and the early stages of an allergy that could worsen. You are very smart to only take it when your husband or someone is home in case you need help. Glad you reached KDM and switching to another AB. I wish I knew why all of this had to be so complicated but have no answers (for myself either!)
 

Hanna

Senior Member
Messages
717
Location
Jerusalem, Israel
Yes I always take when someone around - part of the reason it takes so long to trial them is only me and husband and kids here in remote area and he works full time as well as running kids around etc

This whole herx v reaction thing is a nightmare - am thinking about private testing for drug allergies - then at least will know if true allergy, side effect or herx. Side effects such as itching can be put up with if you know it is not a big problem, but if you think is an allergic reaction is scary to carry on.

KDM said today to switch to Clarithromycin with minocycline. Still got to try the C. Oh why is it so complicated?
@justy, though you are supposed to take both, I would introduce one at a time... see what is the reaction and then take both the day after.
 

justy

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latest update:

Just back from my trip to Brussels to see KDM and still taking stock and trying to make decisions, also trying to recover – the trip was quite brutal and I spent most of my time in bed, which was sort of OK as the apartment was nice. The only issue for me is i have to take my own bedding because of MCS and perfume smells so arrived exhausted only to have to change the bedding, air the room and set up my air filter, before I could get into bed.

The biggest decisions are financial right now as we also took my daughter who has been ill on and off for some years. I imagined he would order pared down testing for her (don’t know why I thought this), but he ordered 3,000 euros worth and neither she nor I had the money. We got it down to 2,000 and my testing was 700 (when I got the bill though it says 880 – yikes!) plus I paid for all the accommodation, food and appointments and fuel. My treatment fund is now empty and I have to beg borrow or steal the money to pay my daughters testing fees.

We spent a long time in the clinic waiting for appointments bloods etc and it was really hot in there, thankfully I took my wheelchair to sit in, which is more comfortable than a normal chair. Kdm was in fine spirits and I felt very kind energy from him, I think he can see how ill I am and felt truly empathic to me. We discussed how much worse my health has become since I first saw him last May and how reactive I have become with mast cell activation issues etc. He said that this is what happens when you are ill for so long – the immune system is disarrayed and everything starts to go wrong. He also said my daughter has immune dysfunction but not as progressed as mine – he called what we have an Acquired Immune Dysfunction Syndrome, but said that that name was already taken.

I asked him if my daughter could have picked up something from me in the womb or a genetic susceptibility and he said sure, but I shouldn’t feel bad about it, he said society has a lot to answer for, for all these people as sick as you – nearly had a tear at this moment. The upshot for me is that he needs to do treatments to get my immune system working a bit better and get me strong enough to tolerate antibiotics to kill the infections. He felt this would be almost impossible with me in the UK, and I suggested I might be able to go to Brussels for a few months over the summer.

His suggestions were that I come for three months and start with daily IV Glutathione. He also wanted me on 5HTP as I said I can feel kind of OK if I do absolutely nothing but stay in bed, but as soon as I start doing anything again I crash. He thought the HPA axis was all out and could be brought back on line slowly with 5HTP at first, although he doesn’t want to fire it up too quickly. I told him my concerns over taking 5HTP as I have had problems with SSRI’s and we talked about that and finally gave me an explanation for why I had such severe akasthesia from them in the past. He said this would not happen with 5HTP – he said he saw extreme reactions to SSRI’s as I had reported in his patients with very LOW Serotonin, 5HTP would help to slowly make more and also make melatonin which could help with my constant awakening and early waking issues.

He also said he couldn’t make a plan there and then as my case was complex he needed to look over my notes and get some more tests and then decide – perhaps LDN, perhaps Quercetin for the mast cells – he wasn’t sure. His plan is 3 months in Bx now, then 6 months at home, then back to Bx for three more months (i presume for iv abx). His concern is that I am not well enough to try killing anything for now – although he said my reaction to Rifampicin with feeling psychotic and suicidal was common and normal with Bart die off.

So it looks like I am going to stay in BX and I have a lot to organise – am having trouble finding a place that is suitable for me because of the crazy stairs they have everywhere, the lack of accommodation in Northern Brussels, and the cost is so high. Later in the summer my kids will also come out so we need a two bed place. There are literally only a few places like this in Brussels for rent, the rest are either unsuitable or ruinously expensive. As it is I am going to have tor raise about 10,000 pounds for each trip I think (most of that will go on housing and taxis). I will probably have to get a bank loan and pray that we can afford to pay it off. But I cant go on like this with no treatment as I can only expect to get worse over the next few years and im sure I wont live to be that old if this continues.

I forgot to add that he is testing me for molds and we talked about the moldy house I used to live in years ago - he gave me amphoceterin B (andtifungal antibiotic) for nasal irrigation twice daily for 25 days to take home with me. They started it straight away in the clinic so they could check I tolerated it ok and it was fine - although my technique is rubbish and rather than coming out the other nostril it tends to just fall out the one I put it in. Sometimes it trickles down my throat and sometimes it works just right.