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My SNPs, Mb12 hypersensitivity, adeno neurological brightening, hydroxy engergy

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by wookielove, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. wookielove

    wookielove

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    Hi all! @caledonia, I've been using your documents as a guide to getting started with SNPs and methylation treatment. If you can, I'd love your guidance here! Anyone else's guidance is also appreciated!!!! @Freddd

    I need some help with B12 and I haven't come across people with my experience so far in the forum despite lots of searching. I've had years of poor health including severe autoimmune, digestive problems, hormonal abnormalities, neurological problems, and fatigue/weakness etc to the point of being bedridden, on and off, for months on end. Despite trying a lot of different things, nothing has shown continued response like adeno B12 (perhaps hydroxy too, I don't know if my positive response is continued yet). These issues began after taking a prescription drug and have been with me for over a decade.

    I'm really trying to address the autoimmune and digestive problems before neurological, or all 3 at the same time.

    My B12 experience with different forms of B12 on their own:


    -Cynocobalamin doesn't do anything.
    -Mb12 causes severe, debilitating headaches and a general feeling of fatigue and being unwell.
    -Adeno, which I began using 4 months ago, caused the neurological brightening effect that Freddd talks about from Mb12 plus more energy.
    -Hydroxy, which I began this week taking orally with food (not sublingually), gives me more energy and mental focus and let's me multitask again, improves digestion, but makes it hard to sleep.

    Combinations:

    If I take adeno first I can tolerate methyl, but it still causes some headache/slowdown. Ratio 3000 mcg adeno / 250 mcg methyl.

    More:

    I had been taking Freddd's recommended cofactors, but stopped most because of digestive problems. I think the B12 needs to be in place for digestion before they can benefit me. Except 2: Vitamin C, I feel horrible when I take it, and don't plan to start again, and I may start low dose MTHFL again despite no mutations on the MTHFR gene.

    Yasko's B12 guidance suggests Hydroxy and Adeno.

    So given this guidance and that both of these forms seem to work for me over methyl, I'm pursuing these first.

    My questions are:

    -How much and at what ratio of Hydroxy and Adeno B12 are people having luck with when supplementing?

    -Since people take shots of Hydroxy, is it safe to take larger amounts orally from the beginning?

    -Does anyone have guidance or experience to share?
     
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Adenosyl doesn't contain methyl groups, so it should be better tolerated.

    Since the hydroxy is oral, your actual dose is probably very low, so it's being better tolerated. Plus hydroxy is better tolerated for those with COMT mutations.

    People who don't tolerate methyl groups can have CBS issues, so need to do CBS treatment first. I had to do this. My symptoms were the classic stress/anxiety reaction (feels like a very stressful week at work). Some people have reported headaches.

    There is another roadblock I don't have on my document yet, which is MAO A +/+ people needing B2 before they can tolerate methyl supps.

    I have noticed if I go over a certain amount very low amount of methyl supps, I get extra fatigue and flu-like symptoms (feels like a crash). I believe this is mercury redistribution (symptoms are the same as that too.). I have tested positive for mercury and am going to try Cutler style chelation in the near future to see if I can get over this roadblock.

    In general, I would suggest working on the gut first with the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program before starting methyl supps.
     
  3. wookielove

    wookielove

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    @caledonia

    Thank you for the reply!!! I should have mentioned in my earlier post that I've spent years already trying to work on and rebuild the gut, about 8 already. The problem is the autoimmune component attacking the gut has just gotten more severe over time despite the protocol and eliminating the vast majority of foods.

    I'm currently on low a low Thiols diet but am not taking any other supplements or prescriptions. I can't even take activated charcoal right now due to problems it's creating in the colon (dangerous). My gut is like inflamed swiss cheese and it's causing SEVERE bodywide autoimmune problems. It's been in large part a failure and I haven't had any positives with my gut until recently when I started supplementing adenosyl. The autoimmune attacks just destroyed my gut and are destroying my joints, and it seems the nerves in the gut have lost feeling too.

    Funny you should mentione the MAO A, I have +/+ too.
     
  4. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    I'm unclear - is the gut causing an autoimmune problem, or is an autoimmune problem causing gut issues?

    I'm also unclear - what have you tried for your gut? Have you done stool testing? Have you done all of the 4Rs not just some of them? Found candida or other bad gut bugs, and killed them off with supps such as caprylic acid? Taken glutamine to fix leaky gut?

    Are you taking pharmaceutical grade fish oil or other anti inflammatory supps? Are you doing an anti inflammatory diet, such as the Zone Diet (basically keeping your blood sugar level through diet).

    Have you ever had mercury exposure such as from mercury amalgam fillings, or vaccines? Did your mother have mercury fillings when she was pregnant with you? (The infant receives 2/3 of the body burden of the mother.) Have you ever tested for toxic metals such as mercury - if so, what kind of test?

    Here is a link to Sherpa's info regarding the MAO A +/+ and B2:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/sustained-release-methylation-protocol-srmp.36344/
     
  5. wookielove

    wookielove

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    @caledonia

    Sorry if I wasn’t more clear, sometimes it’s hard to remember what I’ve shared. :-/

    I think it’s a feedback loop, autoimmune signaling from the body is attacking the gut lining so bacteria and food particles escape making the problem worse. The autoimmune in my case attacks collagen and tendons, so connective tissue, joints, skin, and gut lining.

    I have been treating the gut aggressively for close to a decade and had no luck, only worsening problems. It levels off at times, but then always trends worse....that is until the last 4 months when I started taking adenosylcobalamin, and for a few days when I started taking it I had no problems and joint attacks cleared up, and it hasn’t been as bad since. This in contrast to when I was bedridden earlier this year with severe autoimmune attacks.

    I do not believe the autoimmune will stop until I deal with some of the vitamin deficiency. I believe it's especially bad in my case due to a decade of severe digestive issues (IBS), sometimes for months on end.

    Through trial and error, and the feedback I’ve gotten from B12, the data points toward autoimmune tendencies that are currently exacerbated by vitamin deficiencies. There’s a feedback loop too, as there are hormonal imbalances which are possibly a result of B12 and other deficiencies, which is why I'm treating now with Hydroxy and adenosyl, I'm just trying to understand the ratios that people have benefited from and capitalize on the experience of others, and I haven't seen anything on the forum about people taking hydroxy and adenosyl together and what ratios have worked. I will keep trying regardless, but building on knowledge is much better than recreating the wheel :)

    Extensive stool testing, at least once a year, reads negative for pathogenic bacteria and no yeast at all. Stool tests have found limited bacteria in my gut - limited bacteria and limited diversity.

    I don’t follow the zone diet or other diets like it anymore as I don’t do well. I followed Mark Sisson’s primal diet with more resistant starches to start feeding my non-existant gut bacteria (i.e. give them food to grow), on which I have done the best. I do take fish oil when it’s beneficial (i.e. it’s not running straight through).I may give L-glutamine a try, I had given up aminos as they generally cause worsening symptoms.

    Re: mercury - tests came up low in all metals potentially toxic metals. I do have amalgam fillings.
     
  6. caledonia

    caledonia

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    @wookielove I don't know if there is a specific ratio for hydroxy and adenosyl. I'm personally taking 20mcg of methylcobalamin and 4mcg of adenosyl (divided into 4 doses through out the day). So that's like 5 to 1.

    I think Freddd uses a higher amount of adenosyl than that. In the end, it's what works for you personally. You can figure it out with trial and error, or possibly with self muscle testing.

    Here are some ideas of what to try:

    NAET - this is an energy medicine technique to eliminate food allergies. You would go to a practitioner.

    Self muscle testing - I think this would be very beneficial to learn given that you have so many intolerances. You can test if foods or supps are good or bad for you before you ingest them. You can test supplements without opening the bottle - if it tests bad, send it back for a refund. This will save you money and adding another useless supplement to your collection. Somewhere in my documents I have a link for a good video on Youtube that teaches this. I'm thinking it's in "Start Low and Go Slow".

    You can also use muscle testing to come up with amounts to take. I have had trouble with using it to determine amounts for electrolytes (because you need good electrolyte balance to get a good reading), and also for B12 because there is a delayed response to methylation. But once you get in the ball park with trial and error it gets easier.

    Given your issues, and that you have amalgam fillings, it is extremely likely that you have mercury toxicity. Mercury can show up low on various tests even though you have toxicity.

    My suggestion would be to look at the Cutler protocol. If you do hair metals and minerals testing, and look for disordered mineral transport (interpreted with Cutler's counting rules) I would be shocked if it didn't show positive for mercury. The next step would be to get the fillings removed (very carefully so you don't get hit with more mercury), and then do Cutler style mercury chelation.

    Other protocols can cause you to redistribute mercury and cause more symptoms (found this out the hard way).
     
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