Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by kjones02, Jun 17, 2014.
tdog helped me, but can someone else look at my results too
Anybody? I'm tired of trying, I either feel good, or get really anxious, then resort to a drink sometimes to calm down. I don't want to do this all the time. I think I felt the best just taking a 25mg regular straight vitamin b complex (half of a 50), morning and at lunch time. Why do all the b-complexes have to be soooooo high????????
@kjones02 First, it's really helpful if you go to profile page and list your SNPs in signature line, like you see in mine.
@caledonia has an excellent resource list in her signature.
First off, you'll likely have problems processing sulfur (CBS++, BHMT++)
The sulfur issues really need to be addressed before getting into the rest of the methylation protocol.
I'm sorry you're feeling bad. If you can keep on trying for a bit longer, you'll find things easier as you begin healing. What are you suffering from, your symptoms?
A shorthand version of Amy Yasko's interpretation of the methylation pathway can be found here: http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm
The B complex I've settled on is a 25mg cap, which I split and take 1/2 AM, 1/2 midday.
I agree with Ahmo, with the anxiety, it sounds like CBS is an issue. If that's the case, you will have to spend a few months addressing CBS before you can tolerate methyl supps. I had to do this.
Heartfixer has the best info on how to determine if CBS is expressed, and then how to treat it. See my signature links.
Thanks for the replies ladies! I was talking to tdog about methylation, and he gave me excellent things to start off with, but I have been feeling anxious lately. However, then I focus on cortisol levels, and then I get tired. I am either wound up or too tired. It is hard to get a balance. Ahmo, that seems like a good b complex. However, should I be concerned about b6 in supplements? Another b complex that I though looked good was thorne's stress b complex? 1/2 a capsule on that might be good.
I met tdog through my candida forum, and I have noticed that I don't mind eating right anymore; taking the right supplements; however, then when I start supplementing with certain b, or too much molybdenum I think now, I get crazy. My mind doesn't stop racing, and either I can't stop going, or I am just charged up. Sometimes, I seem to can't calm down, then I might just want an alcoholic drink just to calm down. I don't want that! Plus, it's not good for you.
I'll put my results in my posts for now, instead of putting up that link. I wasn't sure what to do, sorry about that!
Caledonia, lol, if not too busy at work today, I'll read all these links. I need to understand this.
About the sulfur, tdog recommended for phenol foods, etc. that the enzyme supplement no-fenol would help. However, I have noticed it can help (bought the chewable), but then later, I seem to get just general gas on even just 1/2 chewable capsule. I read this can soften stools. I was wondering about just taking it right before bed to just help from what I ate for the day to help me go to the bathroom in the morning. I should mention that I don't have a colon. I think that really contributes to things.
I tried for 2 years to take various b complexes, some good, others not, and I feel they are important to me because I have had good results from some (very good days), but then other days that I just can't wind down at night, cortisol high, and then sleep poorly till I read about methylation on my candida forum. I feel if I can get this right, this will help. If you have any other suggestions, chime in here.
Like I said, I'll take a look at the links today, and wondering if I should take a break again from methylation (like you said, focus again on the sulfur issue), and just focus on my cortisol levels again, but then I don't want to be tired; I feel like I need something (even just a bid of a capsule; how can I do that?). Sometimes, I hate it how we live in such a fast-paced society. Can't we all just slow down, think clearly? I know when I am on an even-keel, just right, energy+calm, I am more productive.
I guess a good idea right now is to get a niacin supplement to stop some of this overmethylation currently I might have trapped myself in? Last night, I was worked up. Also, I notice molybdenum helps, but too much gets me worked up. I thought the phenol assist companion is good. I just appreciate any advice? Also, gaba and relora relax me, and help with the methylation. I have been on anti-depressants in the past, such as prozac in high school, and zoloft, believe 5htp gets me worked up too, like I said, I think gaba, relora, ps all seem to be good on me! I thought I should add these notes. Well, I better pack my lunch, and get started for the day. Thanks everyone! Hope to here from you ladies soon. Going to try and really study this, if I don't get too much brain fog.
One more thing: would this work? It is not niacinamide, but it is nadh that I have here at home: http://www.vitasprings.com/nadh-5mg-30-tablets-source-naturals.html#.U6LXPEB_R-Q
@kjones02 Don't know whether NADH would work like niacin for this purpose. Since you have them, try it.
Look for B6 as P5P. I'm still unclear whether regular B6 actually blocks things, or is just useless.
This is the B comp that Freddd is using:
NatureMade B-complex with C, List # 1338. This has 15mg of thiamin,10.2mg of Riboflavin and 50mg of Niacin, 5mg b-6 and 10mg pantothenic acid.
What are you doing at present? If you're using small doses already, it might be fine to continue, and now start addressing the sulfur issues.
Sulfur in foods and as your body produces things leads to excess ammonia that your body isn't processing. This can be what's driving your anxiety, agitation. It affects the brain. Once I understood this, I could begin to feel when it was ammonia that was affecting me.
Things I'm using for sulfur/ammonia: butyrate w/ meat meals; amino acids that reduce ammonia: citrulline, arginine, ornithine, lysine. I don't know the differences between these, or how they interact. But I self-test + for all of them, generally using 1/8 tsp citrulline, 1/4 tsp arginine, and 1/2 tsp ornithine, lysine. When detoxxing I needed more. One day I'll do the esearch to understand their individual properties.
Some sulfur references. The 2nd one is an interesting conversation of mums dealing w/ sulfur issues in kids.
http://www.stuartxchange.org/Sulfa.html Sulfur/Sulfonamide-Containing Drugs
ahmo, thanks so much for the replies. It is really helping! I didn't have time yesterday to read everything; I got busy at work. However, I was looking at the links you provided last night, and all of this makes so much sense to me. Ever since I joined a candida forum last year, I started to seem some progress in my health, but I was still struggling. Then, came across the topic of methylation, which made sense to me because I was always trying different b complexes, either with success or not. Tdog was the one that started helping me! However, I haven't seen him in a long time.
I have always had anxiety, excitability, ever since I was a kid. I have a history of an eating disorder, anorexia/bulimia, being a perfectionist, digestive disorders, etc. Also, I never got a long with my dad. We don't speak today, ever since I came out I am gay and been with my partner for 5 1/2 years now. He has been put through so much with me! Strong relationship here!
Well, I started doing, like tdog mentioned, just doing methylfolate and mb12 (anywhere from 200mg folate and 250mcg mb12 to 1,000mcg mb12). I was just playing around with the dosage depending on my day, and how active I was. Also, I was focusing on my cortisol levels; relora and gaba calm me down. Also, I think relora makes me feel more generally at peace, but can get a little tired, due to the history of eating disorder because I could binge, too. This makes it so I can just focus on meals and snacks like a normal person, and try to keep blood sugar levels stable. I felt like between digestive enzymes, similase gfcf, ox bile, and hcl; I was doing pretty good. I just have to make sure not to do mb12 in the afternoon; otherwise can't sleep, unless, I am going to have a late night.
I am thinking about finding a nd that I can actually meet. At the candida forum, one nd is very knowledgeable, and he has helped me find the right links on things, but I think he has made me feel worse several times. He recommends methylguard for methylation. I had been trying this off and on; and now, I have come to the realization, this is way toooooo much for me. Even just 1 capsule, when they recommended 3 capsules for a dose, crazy! I think the tmg gets to me.
I still felt like I was missing other b vitamins, so that is why I am coming here more, tdog said he was coming here. I am finally now starting to post more. Now, today, I am going back to what I have done the past few weeks of what has helped. I might just do 1 more consult over the phone with this nd, and find someone I can actually see to talk with. The closest spot I can do is St. Louis. I live in So. IL.
Of course, he might get mad at me because I have done other things he does not recommend, but honestly, the only things I think he has really helped me figure out now, is trying to realize how to heal my liver, gallbladder, and kidneys, which I have figured out from the candida forum. Also, I have just read about on the candida forum. Plus, some of the homeopathetics have worked, but he prescribes way too much, and some supplements are just too much (fighting yeast), especially with no colon!!!!
I think I was just getting crazy here the past couple days by trying to do more of what he wants me to do. I just can't take it his way! I tan to detox, sweat, vitamin D to make me feel better.
I do think by doing things sort of more from here, and my way, has resulting in a more flat stomach. That was always an issue for me, probably due to the no colon/gastroparesis/eating disorder history!
I got my colon taken out in 2011. I found out I had colitis, and colon inertia. Childhood history of chronic constipation! Then, after that, I was still having issues, and I found out I have gastroparesis. So, this helps, but I still have to watch it. I had inserted a gastric pacemaker in Jan. 2012, which speeds up my stomach.
Tdog helped me realize this, and I have here at home carb-gest and no-fenol chewables to see which will help. Also, I have phenol assist companion. I found the carb-gest and no-fenol (even just 1/2 a capsule), does help with gas and digesting some vegetables and fruit, which I love, but the gi effects later are not pretty. Also, I do like to drink tea in the morning. I do get headaches. I might start doing phenol assist companion at each meal, and really watch my sulfur/phenols now more closely now!!!!! Trying to follow candida/gluten,dairy-free/and now low-phenol diet is hard!!!
Here is phenol assist companion ingredients, unless you recommend some other amino acid supplement I can take! Molybdenum does help, but I have come to realize I can't take too much, or I am going to get very excited. Might be tmi, but my excitability is when no one is around, I can, umm, mastrubate for several hours, trying to calm down. Sorry people!
Both of these look perfect to take because I feel I still need my other b vitamins! Honestly, sometimes I think back in the day, I felt the best splitting up a dose of a b50 complex (1/2 am,1/2 lunch), but I was getting junk. Then, all the others had too much of the right kind of folate and mb12, which I hated! The NatureMade looks good because it doesn't have folate or b12, in case I need to take a break.
However, the swanson looks good, too to get everything, and 1/2 and 1/2 does look good!
Tdog recommended this multi-vitamin to try at times, too.
I know the store has the naturemade, which I think I might pick up today then to try. =) Thanks!
Glad to know about the b6; I won't worry as much, just try not to go crazy over!
Thanks for the help, and I hope to hear from you soon, on more suggestions. I think talking with other people on things like this has helped more. Hopefully, I can look at all those links this weekend, reading and reading, methylation is confusing!
Okay, I think I just did it right, too. I just now put my defects in my profile page, so hopefully this shows up in this message.
Yeah, it worked! =)
Also, I should note that I have thought about different nd's, just because money stresses me and causes anxiety. I can't consult with a nd every month, and he is very expensive! I am on temp. disability, due to medical history, and I am young. Going to be 30, July 23rd!
Are you Paleo or GAPS diet? highly recommend it. Might either trigger or relieve your eating disorder patterns, but temporary gluten, dairy-free, low/no starch can be v helpful for healing gut, setting you on track for healing. I learned on GAPS that fruit is an optional extra, pleasurable, but not necessary, and may need to be eliminated for a time to allow gut healing. GAPS might freak you out at first, contrary to everything we're taught: high fat to heal and seal the gut and nervous system. But you, like me, will need to adapt it to low sulfur, like avoiding cabbage for sauerkraut...
If you don't know anything about it, here's a GAPS FAQ page. when you click on a question, it often bounces upward, so the answer is out of sight...And one of the very many blogs...
PhenolAssist seems to include many of the single elements I use. Looks good.
Methylation is indeed confusing. You suddenly find yourself immersed in a personal biochemistry study path, nothing you ever anticipated. but you'll reap the rewards for the rest of your life.
Well, I have been doing the candida diet for the past year and half, not to the T this past year. I have been able to introduce some things more in my diet again, but I am still healing. It just gets frustrating because it seems I have been plugging along for so long! I feel like I get close, and then I take a little step back.
Yes, I do paleo somewhat, and low-starch. Like if I have starch in the morning, then I don't have it really during the day. Lunch will then be a salad with the some turkey or chicken. I seem to understand why I can't handle eggs all the time. It is the sulfur issue. So glad that I came upon methylation this year. Now, I can handle egg whites a lot better, so I will cook them up, and put them on things.
Main starches I like to stick to are that make me feel the best: millet, quinoa, sorghum, tapioca, arrowroot, almond here and there. Coconut comes and goes; I have to watch out for this because it is very high in fiber, and can hurt my gastroparesis. Plus, I'd rather do almond milk than coconut milk. My favorites really are millet, quinoa, and sorghum. I do rice here and there, but not to often. When people talk about gluten free, they always assume brown rice. Geesh, I have to tell them there are other grains, well, false-type grains. Buckwheat, I can't do, but found a light buckwheat flour that goes better down me that I can cook with.
I have seeked in some wheat here and there, but not heavy things. Something like when I am at work, a few graham crackers or something like. A couple times when I have been out to eat, a small breadstick, but I do feel better not doing so much starch at one time; I don't get as tired then.
Yes, fruit is still an issue. I am able to seek it in here and there, but it is still hard. I do miss it dearly. I have been able to seek it into some baking or agave nectar (something else like that, not too much), or maybe might be able to eat some before a meal, or top a few berries on cereal in the morning, but not too often. As I have been able to tolerate more fat finally at times, I do miss my fruit! However, I do find after being on a candida diet, that I feel weird if I don't get a veggie in of somewhat. I want something fresh. It doesn't even have to be very much, just a few slices of cucumbers maybe with a sandwich that is wrapped with a paleo wrap or lettuce. I feel that is good. Back in college and before the diet, I'd use to be a gum and hard candy alcoholic!!! I'd probably threw my blood sugar all out of whack all the time!
Also, the main dairy I have been able to introduce at the time is goat yogurt. I buy that at my health store, and I can eat that in the morning sometimes. Then, I have made some zucchini crust with goat cheese. Other than that, no dairy. I would like to introduce regular cheese, but still afraid to. I did buy a yogurt maker, and I have been trying to make my own almond yogurt.
Maybe with methylation this year, I can start handling some more things again, and feel better. I hope so!
Now, I have not done the the GAPS diet. I'll have to look into that more!
Glad to know I am on the right track with the phenol assist companion. Also, when I purchased it, and I was like good, it has a small dose of molybdenum, not a huge amount. I found actually taking too much excited me. I might save that for demanding days cause it does help. Everything gets confusing!
I did buy the naturemade b complex yesterday, so we'll see how that goes. I'll keep on reporting my progress. Thanks for all your help. Last night, I was tired, but overall, yesterday, I had a much better day than the other day.
Took my relora a couple times yesterday for anxiety, it will always be there,! Plus, took gaba a couple times yesterday. I have been taking l-glutamine from time to time, too to heal the gut.
Then, I took 200mg of methylfolate, and 250mcg mb12 and breakfast and lunch.
Also, I tried out 1/2 a tablet of the naturemade b complex at lunch.
Hope I am doing the right things.
I should have time this morning to read and read.
Then, I am headed out for the afternoon to some town about 45 minutes from here that has a festival going on. Looking forward to that!
@kjones02 Do you have a known gluten sensitivity? If so, 'a little wheat' is harming you, creating antibodies that are affecting not only your gut. And, If you are gluten intolerant, I have some more bad news I've only just learned about gluten cross-reactive foods. the body recognizes these proteins As If they are gluten: similar enough shape to fool the body and set up reactions. I've just removed the buckwheat (2Tb/day) I'd been enjoying for several months, and feel better in 24 hours. I was deeply traumatized to learn of this cross-reactivity 2 days ago. But my adrenals were stressed and I was searching for the answer.
If you are gluten intolerant, this could be pushing/creating the anxiety. During the year before I found GAPS my nervous system was so on fire that I contemplated checking out. I could not live like this. 3 days after starting GAPS it had calmed. Hope you enjoyed the festival
I did eat gluten free all last year. I only recently decided to try a few things here and there because I just had a celiac panel. It did come back negative, but yes, I have worried about cross contamination before. The only reason I decided to try it because I found this enzyme that has helping me better than the enzyme I took last year to digest my food.
Also, taking another enzyme to help my liver and gallbladder at each meal.
Also, I agree about the buckwheat. I was buying a flour in bulk from my co-op, and I found that I was having a reaction to it. I think it was contaminated!
That link you provided about casein is interesting because I know I have trouble with that protein. I didn't make that connection till last year when I was learning all about candida, diet, and health! I have been able to do goat at times though ever since December. The first dairy I tried since Jan. 2013.
Now, after trying some bites of wheat this past month (like I said, it is just like some graham crackers at work), I still not prefer them. I do feel better knowing my food is pure and natural, gluten and dairy free. So, who knows, I could still have a gluten sensitivity though, but I figured with that enzyme (since it had been so long), that I try some. However, I am being cautious, this past month (I haven't followed my diet all the time; my food still taste better) that I am going back to things I know settle on me until my 30th birthday party next month. My party is July 19th that my friends are throwing for me, but my actual birthday is the 23rd. I am excited to see them. I just got a little lazy from cooking this month.
Also, what has been bothering me again is my joints! My ankles started swelling again. I was supplementing with a fish oil supplement that I thought felt really good on my system, but I kept on getting reactions to it. Then, I figured out why. It was the coromega, and it is derived from eggs. Then, my gi effects were awful! The nd gave me some homeopathetics to help with it, but it is still not enough. I am only 29, and here I am moving like an old man sometimes because my ankles are swollen from too much moving.
Now, before, when tdog seemed to be around (haven't gotten them), he said these helped him. What do you think?
I did have fun at the festival. I am just tired this morning after a busy weekend because then I had to work yesterday, too. Today is staying at home, cleaning, so then tomorrow, I can prepare and cook my food.
Wednesday night I have a phone consult with the nd after 3 month hiatus.
I got a little anxious yesterday, and I'm just going to monitor again what I am doing with the b's.
Thanks for all your help; any other recommendation are helpful, and hope to hear from you soon!
Celiac panel doesn't register for those of us w/ "non-celiac" gluten intolerance.
Don't be so quick to dismiss the reaction to buckwheat flour as cross-contamination. Please look further.
Your joint pains are a sign of inflammation. I suggest you try a week or so on strict diet and see if it changes. Believe me, I speak from experience. I wouldn't be adding any supps until you rule this out.
Well, I did forget to mention that I know why I get the swelling in my lower legs and ankles at times. I have had it off and on in the past. Earlier this year, I started getting it really bad, so I went to the doctor. I found out I have osteopenia, which didn't surprise my mom due to my history of a eating disorder and now gastroparesis. I was like thanks mom. For awhile, I was doing a great fish oil and taking medication, and it improved a bit; however, it is acting up again.
What do you think of that?
As I stress again, I have been following a strict diet. I was just going through a little beauty period, so I was trying some different foods, which included different veggies. However, all the links you provide are very interesting. I have not had oats in the longest time, due to not knowing if it is gluten free, and still don't. I never realized so many other things could cause pain, too, even it claims to be gluten free. Awww, there is just so much to understand all the time. It gets confusing.
Should I keep on trying b vitamins? I have felt in a better mood somedays again, finally, after neglecting them for so long, not knowing what caused me to be so hyper sometimes until I read about methylation.
Yes, I feel better without buckwheat, too. I discovered that a long time ago! I kept trying it after a few weeks sometimes, but I have come to the conclusion that it is not for me either. Now, when I bake my own treats (I do a lot, and then freeze them), I can do this certified light buckwheat flour.
B Vits probably a good idea, as long as you're sure no folic acid. You need folate form.
Wikipedia re Osteopenia:
Do you mean to say 'with' or 'without' certified light buckwheat flour?
Your gluten intolerance is a serious disorder. You've already lost your colon. You need to dedicate some time to really understanding this. And please don't go off into all the 'non-gluten' processed food treats. they are not your friends. Unless you adopt a strict elimination diet for a time, you'll never be able to know what you're reacting to. In a way, you'll have to become super self-involved, because you need to really feel when your body is reacting, to track symptoms. Sorry to come across like the, but you're a young man with a life ahead. It's likely you'll need to come to a new accommodation w/ food. ...Easy for me to say, I'm a recluse since my illness, no social eating. Please spend some time at the links already posted, and those below. The autoimmune paleo is quite strict...don't know whether autoimmune is one of your issues...OK, bye for now
I guess I am just confused when I have been eating gluten free/candida for a year and a half trying to pin-point certain condiments, veggies, fruits, even, yes, the gf flours that might react to me, reading every little ingredient possible, and at the beginning of the year, yes, supplements! I tried to explain the supplement part to the nd b/c I can't take some of the things he recommends.
I need to take some time to read the new, more information you provided me. Today got a little anxious, but was able to calm down; took a nap. I'll keep you updated! No, your not mean; I'm just trying to understand.
You can also try a Google Site Search
Separate names with a comma.