Good stuff Justy/Wayne,others.. I hate going back and forth on this issue, because any suffering, no matter the condition is a terrible thing for any person. The answer to our debate/conversation may never come to be with our medical community. Just as Parkinsons, ALS and on, you can have the Atypical disease, the pure genetic form of the disease...its no different with ME..their is Atypical ME, and other conditions that mirror ME, that can still be labeled ME..just as in other diseases. When you have the Atypical form of these diseases, as myself and others here, because gentics play such a huge factor..a cure is nearly impossible unfortunately. When you have the secondary type of illness that mirror the Atypical forms, full recovery is much more likely..I've seen the differences plenty of times at the clinc I go to. Ian, thanks for your lectures, I agree with some of what you say and disagree on others, regardless all old news for me brother. I beleive you have to be genetically predisposed to getting this disease. In saying that...Theoritcally either toxin or virus can trigger genetic expression which in theory could lead to ME if genetically predisposed, being caused by...chemical/vaccination, virus...and maybe trauma...not just virus...so maybe their are multiple triggers...but genetic predispostion is a must. In saying that, generally I see those with the truest form of ME, initiated by a viral trigger, but cant rule out the other triggers...actually been racking my brain about this topic for years(triggers)....the whole thing is just so freaking complex its baffeling.