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My recovery story

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Ian, Dec 23, 2010.

  1. Ian

    Ian Senior Member

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    I thought some of you might be interested in this, since it is related to my story. This is the machine that found my problems. I scanned these from the leaflet I was given.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Not surprisingly, even though the cavitat scanner is FDA approved, mainstream dentistry has gone after dentists that use this machine. The reason being is because you can see the damage root canals and implants do to the bone marrow. Dentists would never give up root canals and implants ! they make far too much money from them.
  2. Recovery Soon

    Recovery Soon Senior Member

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    My sudden of CFS occurred in in the following way-

    2005 had 4 wisdom teeth removed
    2006- found out the upper two teeth adjacent to the removed Wisdoms were severely infected, and also had to be removed. And They were promptly were.
    Late 2006- 2 titanium dental implants were surgically inserted in the areas where they were removed.

    2 weeks later Acute Onset of CFS.

    I also have had numerous root canals over the years. I struggled with all of this information about removing the implants (turns out I am not allergic to titanium), and whether or not to check for a cavitation.

    I did massive research to explore addressing these avenues, and could not find one reputable practitioner to take either one seriously, nor could I even locate a facility that can diagnosis or treat cavitations.

    Further- I went to an outstanding Natural Dentist who removed all of my mercury fillings (which did nothing), and she gave no credence to the root canal and/or cavitation cause of illness.

    So, after this long, expensive and tiresome road, I had to conclude that cavitation/root canal issues were a rainbow in the dark.

    If I could find even ONE credible practitioner in my area (NYC), who could diagnose this as the problem I would give it one more shot.
  3. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Ian,

    Congrats on your long journey to recovery and thanks for sharing.

    Could you list the symptoms you experienced? Did you suffer severe insomnia? Did you have localized pain in the jaw bone area? I have a friend who may be infected and constantly feels "poisoned" as you describe.

    thanks,
    Mij
  4. Ian

    Ian Senior Member

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    severe insomnia? No
    Symptoms varied somewhat over the years, but it started with with a sensation that I had flu, for months on end. Headaches, my body ached. Severere fatigue, totally drained of energy. Then it changed to somewhat less of a flu feeling, and changed to more of a feeling of being chronically poisoned. It's hard to describe, but it effected every ounce of my being. I had a lot of fungal infections too, mostly on my skin which got worse when I felt worse.

    Recovery Soon,
    you are right it's hard finding dentists, but they are out there. I had to travel a few hundred miles from my home to find one. Unless dentists accidently find a cavitation, most don't even know such a concepts exists, because it's not part of their training. It is possible people are allergic to titanium, but from what I've read, it's about 5% of people, and it can only be mild, so really for most the metal isn't a problem. I got my only root canal tooth removed, and the bone around the tooth cleaned. My plan was to get an implant there, and I spent a great deal of time researching about the safety of implants and really could find nothing to support the case that implants could be bad. The dentists I went to see to get fixed, they find that the bone around implants frequently is toxic (because it's died). The problem with implants is they have a space large enough for 8 bacteria to fit abrest around the implant, and you have a connection from the mouth which is full of bacteria, deep into the bone marrow. Natural teeth have a totally different attachment to the bone, they are attached by ligaments, and theres a fluid that circulates to keep them clean. Implants don't have this. My advice to you (if you want my advice) is to get a cavitat scan done, it costs somewhat, but it can paint an accurate picture about what's going on in your jaw. The next step is dealing with whatever the scan shows. Really you can have a really large problem, that can be totally invisible to x-ray, which the cavitat will find. Actually cavitations can be found by other means as well, I think they show up on spiral CT scans. Theres also more crude ways of finding them, which simply just involves queezing the bone with 2 fingers and see if it elicits pain, or using infra-red laser thermometers to see if theres a temperature difference. The guy I went to see found mine that way before I had a scan.

    Have a look at these pictures. The first a lot of dentists would have probably done root canal/crown. But you can see the bone around the tooth has been destroyed. Surgery would be needed to remove the dead material.
    [​IMG]

    This one looks similar to what I had I think (but smaller)
    [​IMG]
  5. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi Recovery Soon,

    I read your story with interest. You kind of lost me at the end though when you mention "rainbow in the dark". I'm not sure what that means. I'm 58 and never heard that one before; I guess I've led a sheltered life. :D:angel:

    Anyway, I'm really curious what you're thinking after your long and laborious journey. Care to elaborate? -- Thanks.

    Best, Wayne
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Cavitat - Electrodermal Screening - Cavitations

    Hi Ian,

    Thanks for your ongoing information and elaboration. I'm quite curious about your take on the accuracy of the Cavitat. I researched this several years ago, and actually had some cavitat pictures taken. Unfortunately, this particular dentist never took the time to explain what they meant or what course of treatment might be advisable.

    So I was sort of left on my own to figure out what they might mean. I remember running across some information suggesting the Cavitat wasn't necessarily all that accurate, and could give false results. I don't remember learning of other methods you mention, and find this to be very interesting. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on how accurate you feel the Cavitat is at this time, and whether you think diagnosis should ideally be done by a variety diagnostic methods.

    I notice you didn't mention electrodermal screening as a diagnostic method. This what Linda Smith used, as described in the book "Diagnosis Unknown". I know this is also controversial, but in the Smith's case, it was their key. Do you have any particular opinion about ES?

    Thanks...

    Wayne
  7. Ian

    Ian Senior Member

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    The cavitat measures blood flow. Basically if the area is not green, you have necrotic bone, or a hole. I think most of the time, if it isn't green, they'll probably recommend surgery, or extraction or whatever. Depending on the case really. If its really minor they might not bother. As for the accuracy, I believe it's fairly accurate. From personal experience, I think it's more likely to give a false negative (ie show no problems) than a false positive. I say this because I had cavitation surgery in 2009 got almost completely better then 5 months later I felt my problems came back, so I went back for a scan and x-ray, neither of which showed anything. The cavitat scan was entirely green. But I knew my problems had come back so i paid the dentist to actually open up my jaw bone and find out what had happened. He cut my gum open, then just pushed down really hard with one of his dental stabbing weapons, and just fell into a hole. It was long and thin, I thnk that's why the machine missed it. If you are reading this and thinking WTF, yeah I really have put myself through a lot to get where I am now.

    This was my first scan (before surgery) 48 is where my wisdom tooth was. You can see how the infection had tracked along my bone.
    [​IMG]

    6 month scan after surgery
    [​IMG]

    Then my year scan was entirely green.
  8. lancelot

    lancelot Senior Member

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    southern california
    during the 1st year of my CFS, i was reading and looking for anything that might be the cause. i was totally healthy with no prior medical problems before CFS disabled me. As i was doing research that may pertain to me, i found books saying that a hidden infected cracked tooth can cause CFS. 8 months prior to getting CFS, i had cracked a molar and the cracked piece was removed by my dentist. when i looked at the tooth, i saw the area was red and inflamed so i had an oral surgeon look at it again. He found that the teeth and the root beneath was totally infected with pus. the doctor didn't really know what CFS was but theorized that my fatigue was due to an overactive immune system fighting the hidden tooth infection for so long. I shared this info with my primary doc and he said there is no way an infected tooth could be causing my disabling CFS. i was very hopeful that by removing the infected tooth/roots and cleaning out the infection, i would be cured or at least feel much much better. The oral surgeon(MD) carefully extracted the infected tooth/roots, cleaned it out, stitched and i was on penicillin for about 1 week. Unfortunately, removing this tooth abscess made absolutely no difference to my disabling CFS not even a little bit just as my primary doc had said. so back to the drawing board for me.
  9. Recovery Soon

    Recovery Soon Senior Member

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    Ian-

    My onset symptoms and their progression were/are identical to yours. I would get the cavitation scan, but again, I have no idea who would do a such a thing anywhere near me.

    Is there a listing of some sort? I'm in the NYC area.
  10. Ian

    Ian Senior Member

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    The only listing I know is here
    http://web.archive.org/web/20040405013108/www.dentalhelp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=showdocs
    The only one i've ever really heard of personally in the states that does this kind of work (and is good) is http://www.drshankland.com/
    http://www.drshankland.com/page11402151.aspx <- excellent page on cavitatoins

    If you want to go down this route, my advice is to try and learn as much as you can on the subject, because this is not mainstream medicine. The quality of work by other dentists could vary widly. The first dentist I went to see with a cavitat scanner, did the scan, but had no surgical skills to help me, so it was a waste of my time. The second, had been doing cavitation surgery for 14 years, and really was an expert so I was in good hands.

    Lancelot, when your surgeon removed your tooth did he make sure to remove the peridontal ligaments ? Because the bone frequently does not heal if the peridontal membrane is still in the socket, and surgeons never remove them. Why, this is a good question.
  11. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    I know a dental surgeon in NY who is mercury free and does all the titanium implants, cavitations, etc. - he was mercury poisoned himself so he takes it very seriously. He's the one who took out my amalgams. He works with an orthomolecular physician with whom in some cases you consult first and together they really clean you up and get to the root of the problem, no pun intended (those root canals are very toxic, btw). Not sure how much he charges for that kind of thing, though, but he is excellent, the best in the business. People fly in from all over the country, maybe the world, to see him. Top notch care, and he is really a great guy.
  12. Recovery Soon

    Recovery Soon Senior Member

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    Thank you. My hesitation is that I've had 6 teeth (wisdom included) removed and several root canals over the years. That's a lot to rule out.

    I'm afraid of a massive wild goose that wastes a lot of time, money and hope on nothing.

    That's what happened when I first got sick- and removing the fillings was a complete waste of time- even thou the MELISA people told me point blank that I was allergic to them and they were very likely causing my CFS.

    It was just a lot of BS.
  13. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Exactly right. Anyone who says root canals aren't toxic doesn't know what he or she is talking about. My mercury doctor - a board certified cancer doc and orthomolecular physician, who has written and published books on the subject, been interviewed on 60 Minutes, and given Congressional testimony by invitation as an expert witness - states clearly that root canals are in fact extremely toxic. This guy doesn't mess around, he is totally legit and he knows the science, not to mention having dealt with countless patients with mercury and dental poisoning.
  14. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Recovery Soon,

    I think that's the way it is with just about anything we may consider doing for ourselves. We just don't know whether it will pan out or not, and could be minus a significant amount of money for our efforts.

    One thing I've kept in mind is that it's possible we may indeed be successfully addressing some "core" issues that played a part in our CFS, but because so many things have happened in our bodies over time (such as entrenched HPA dysfunction, or MCB, etc.), some of us just aren't able to "tip" ourselves back into some sort of homeostasis.

    It appears that in Ian's case, he was able to make his way back to wellness. But if he had waited longer, say another year or two, I think there would probably have been less of a likelihood he would have been able to. This would fit in with the observations that the longer a person has CFS, the less are the odds of recovery.

    My own personal belief, is that some of us, after addressing as many physical issues as we can, may have to find different methods of restoring some homeostasis that is not occurring naturally. I think this is where different modalities like acupuncture, neural therapy, etc. may play a role.

    There's certainly no roadmap out there for us to follow. But the people I've noticed who have made the greatest improvements are the ones who diligently and methodically stayed the course in tracking down their own particular issues, and then addressed them the best they could.

    Given your remarkable story about your sudden onset of CFS, I think you're on the right track with continuing to give this cavitation issue your attention (IMHO). It sounds like you've experienced a great deal of frustration with this issue over a long period of time, but perhaps it's possible you can find the right oral surgeon that can really take care of some things for you.

    If you do find one, I would appreciate hearing about it. I have various pain syndromes in my mouth, and suspect they're from some underlying infections, and hope to begin doing my own research this coming year. If you're willing to travel, you may want to consider the following oral surgeon I'm considering contacting. Just calling his office might provide you some good information.
    ..........................................................................

    Terry J. Lee DDS
    CAMELBACK DENTISTRY
    4210 N. 32nd Street
    Phoenix, AZ 85018

    Phone: (602)956-4807 Fax: (602)381-8299

    Email: tjleedds@dancris.com

    Services: Biological Dentistry, Heavy Metal Detox, Cavitation Surgery, Homeopathics, Electro-Dermal Testing, Applied Kinesiology, Biocompatibility Testing, TMJ/TMD Treatment, Amalgam Free, Cranial Sacral Therapy

    Contact Biological Holistic Dentistry...

    http://members.cox.net/tjleedds/contact.shtml
    .......................................................................

    Terry Lee was the oral surgeon who did the cavitation surgery on Linda Smith, the woman with CFS in the book "Diagnosis Unknown". So he's had at least one success with someone who came to him with CFS, and he was able to do the surgery that was the key to her totally recovering her health.

    Wishing you the best as you continue to research this very difficult and tedious topic.

    Wayne
  15. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    You are passing on misinformation. I worked for an Endodontist before becoming ill and root canals are not toxic at all. The problem lies with the incompetent dentist who preformed the procedure to begin with and/or the assistant who didn't follow proper protocol, sterilization etc.
  16. Ian

    Ian Senior Member

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    Mij, root canals are toxic. Read this from the american dential association. It should raise alarm bells
    http://jada.ada.org/cgi/content/full/132/2/191

    Dentin looks like this
    [​IMG]
    Ask your dentist how he cleans and kills all the bacteria in that. Because if it isn't 100% sterile, you've created an enormous space for bacteria to live.
  17. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    No, it's not misinformation. Root canals are toxic. Experts with decades of experience treating thousands of chemical sensitivity and chemical injury cases have seen it over and over again. Root canals are basically poison, and if a root canal is contributing to your problem and you don't have it addressed, you'll simply never get well again.
  18. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Several years ago, I became suspicious of a very old root-canaled tooth after reading about some of the dangers of root canals. I even made an appt. with an oral surgeon to have it extracted. He said his latest high tech imaging machine could tell whether it was a problem or not, and so he took a picture. He said it looked amazingly healthy, and talked me out of having it extracted.

    About 2-3 years later, I developed a blister on my lip directly across from this root-canaled tooth and again became suspicious of it. Before I eventually had this tooth extracted, I tried to have it redone with what was supposed to be a superior way of doing root canals (using a calcium oxide component called Biocalex; used in Europe for many years). There was only one dentist in Oregon that did it, and so I traveled about 200 miles one morning to get there and have it done.

    By the time I got there, my normal headache pain had become pretty excruciating. But very interestingly, when the dentist started drilling, after just a few moments he asked, "do you smell that?". I nodded, and he said, "that's the infection you're smelling!" But what was even more interesting, was that within the next couple of minutes, my headache disappeared. And I felt totally relaxed while having my tooth drilled on!

    My headaches remained minimized for about 6 weeks, and then returned again to the pre-drilling intensity. Several weeks after this attempt at having this tooth redone (it failed because of the lack of tooth remaining), I finally got it extracted. My daily chronic headaches and chronic nausea both improved pretty dramatically (about 50% as I remember) within hours of having it removed. What a burden it had been for about 35 years of my life!

    I know this is just one story. But I’ve heard and read many other similar stories. Based on my own experience and research, I just don’t believe root canals are as benign as endodontists normally claim. I believe that even if everything is performed competently, the failure rate is most likely very high. Unfortunately, these failures don’t always make themselves known by overt physical symptoms. Only after having an offending root-canaled tooth extracted is it better known to what degree it was impacting overall health.

    Just one person’s opinion, based on personal experience and some pretty comprehensive research.

    Wayne
  19. Tree

    Tree

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    Wayne, that's quite a story with your root canaled tooth! So glad that you got that sucker taken out and have experienced some improvement since then.

    I've had a couple of root canals, and I definetly lean toward the "they're toxic" side on this. My first root canal failed about a year afterward - very expensive endeavor. I ended up losing that molar totally as a result, and it was a supposedly highly skilled endodontist who performed it.

    My second root canal went badly, and I broke the tooth before I could get the crown on it. I now have a fractured, root canaled tooth in my mouth that I must have extracted and bone grafting done around. Not fun.

    From what I've read, all the cleaning out that endodontists do during the procedure can work and kill most, but not all of, the bacteria in the canals...but only for about a year. Then, in that anaerobically sealed environment of those tiny canals, the bacteria multiply.

    Seems to me, then, that a root canal is only good for about a year before the canals get reinfected. There may be a lot of shiny, happy people out there with root canaled teeth that are not bothering them at all, but I would wager that's because their immune systems are able to quarantine and isolate the infection and deal with it. For those of us with these dysregulations of the immune system, can we really afford to have our energies siphoned off to deal with these things? I don't know what the answer is. I dread implants and don't feel good about root canals. It's all toxic, but we do need chewing surfaces!
  20. Tree

    Tree

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    northern Colorado
    Cavitation surgery near NYC

    Hi Recovery Soon,

    I feel for your ordeal...I understand not being thrilled about the possibility of more expense, surgery, etc.

    When you mentioned not being able to find anyone in NYC, I remembered that when I was researching cavitation surgery a few weeks ago after an exchange with Wayne, I ran across someone who performs it in Connecticut. Actually, his office comes up first if you google "cavitation surgery." He is in Fairfield, CT. - I don't know if he is any good at all, or what his practice is like. There's a goodsized website for his practice. He could be terrible for all I know, so I hope there's a way to check around and see if anyone in your area knows more about him. But maybe he's decent, and not too far away for you. Anyway, here's the link: http://www.wholebodymed.com/contactus.php

    Good luck!

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