1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Can You Come for a Visit? My ME/CFS Says No
My daughter and son-in-law just had a baby last week. We are thrilled. But we won't be able to see the baby or hold her any time soon. We won't be able to take over little gifts or help out with housework or babysitting.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

My recovery protocol, ways to improve it anymore?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by amaru7, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Senior Member

    Messages:
    161
    Likes:
    107
    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    I had no idea anyone had mentioned me nor my post in this thread. Please use the '@' sign before my name in order to link.

    As for the VitC, it was just something I had been reading at the time of posting. Although, it is entirely possible to take such a dose. Although as another user said, you'd have a lot of diarrhoea as the body simply cannot absorb so much.

    My current protocol in progress is Valtrex+two ABX(yet to be determined)+EDTA. Doses to be very high of course during the course of 7-14 days depending on the way my body reacts.

    As for your protocol, it is overwhelming.
    Also it simply contains common vitamins/nutrients, just at high doses.

    I think you just want to try out 100 things with your eyes closed and wishful thinking. If only it worked that way...

    I'd remove almost all from your list. It's simply too many and too much. Keep the most important ones e.g Iodine/Selenium/VitD/C.

    I'd change it by adding drugs rather than supplements. A mix of Anti-inflammatories/ABX/Antivirals.

    I've tried a few from your list, but majority are experimental as I realised many before me have tried these vitamins/nutrients with very limited success.

    Get healthy or die trying seems to be a growing trend on here these days.

    I've treated CFS using that motto for a long time, but wouldn't advocate it.
    barbc56 likes this.
  2. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

    Messages:
    126
    Likes:
    65
    EU
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  3. Radio

    Radio *****

    Messages:
    453
    Likes:
    241

    We need to have some understanding of the root cause of disease before we can utilize high dose nutrient support. Yes, high dose vitamin C can be very beneficial for cancer treatment and many other chronic conditions if we know what we are treating. Dr. Amy Yasko recommends we use vitamin therapy as a low dose approach. Why? Because she know how the body works. If you have a slow liver and weak kidney function, will high dose vitamin therapy be a good idea? The simple is answer no, many have try this approach and failed miserably. I do feel there are exceptions to these rules. High dose lipid therapy has help me in many ways. But, if I had low cortisol or high cholesterol and the COMT+/+ issue, this therapy could be a problem. Alternative medicine techniques such as orthomolecular medicine that targets a wide range of conditions can also be beneficial for some but we need to look at all contributing factors as possible before we try these high dose nutritional type therapy.

    See more here: http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resour...osis-the-mitochondrial-and-immune-connection/



    What is the root cause of this Vicious Cycle?



    Mitochondrial damage
    is a normal part of aging, but is accelerated in many metabolic disorders. Chronic deficiencies and gut imbalances can destroys the mitochondrial membranes and lead to the modern diseases we see today.

    The liver is our most valuable organ, we can only survive one or two days if it shuts down. Some of the most import functions of the liver include: Clearing the blood of waste products, drugs, and other poisonous substances. The liver also produces immune factors and removes bacteria from the bloodstream to help combat infection. There are many inflammatory conditions that can affect the liver's detoxification process. The medical term hepatitis literally means inflammation of the liver. Chronic fatigue, and many other chronic illnesses can be aggravated by a buildup of toxins. Multiple chemical sensitivity can also be a problem that can include an intolerance to caffeine, alcohol, perfumes, and cleaning agents. These intolerance's tends to get progressively worsen over time and can be very damaging to the mitochondria.


    The Sulfotransferase metabolism
    is very important in Phase II detoxification, which is responsible for the detoxification of many compounds. Some of these compounds are phenols, amines, sulfide, salicylates, food additives, and many other toxic molecules as well as nutritious foods considered to be very healthy. Malfunction of the Phenol-Sulfotransferase (PST) enzyme can cause an overload of phase 2 toxins in the liver. These toxins can impair the brain causing fatigue and many other nervous system mitochondrial dysfunctions. These insufficiency can also have a impact on intercellular sulfate needed for proper cell function. Sulfate depletion can have a impact sulphur transferase and sulphite oxidase and possibly contribute to a functional deficiency. These enzyme's are also responsible for the oxidization of sulfur to sulfite which is converted into sulfate by the sulfoxidation process. This dysfunctional liver pathway could be related to this viscous cycle in acquiring CFS/ME.


    Stomach acid
    plays a big part in breaking down the food we eat. Hydrochloric acid and bile acids are needed to maintain a proper balance of gut flora, as well as liberate key nutrients such as B-12. We have identified that these insufficiencies can lead to developing dysbiosis in the small intestine, leading to malabsorption and leaky gut. Intestinal permeability can open the door to autoimmune conditions and immune system dysfunction. There are many factors that can cause a Hydrochloric acid / Bile acid deficiencies.


    See more here
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-i-recovered-from-cfs-part-2.28684/


    Intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) can be the underlying cause for many of the symptoms associated with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.These bacteria can be aerobic as well as anaerobic. SIBO can lead to a overproduction of toxins such as D-lactic acide, Hydrogen sulfide, Acetaldehyde, Endotoxins. These toxins can impair the brain causing fatigue and mitochondrial damage. Bacterial cellular debris can stimulate the production of endogenous interleukin-1 and tumor necrosis factor. LPS can cause inflammation and mitochondrial impairment. Bacteria and yeast overgrowth can also produce hydrogen sulfide (H2S) that can bind to the mitochondrial enzyme cytochrome c oxidase, part of the electron transport chain. This can also impair oxidative phosphorylation and ATP production. Hydrogen sulfide is a neurotoxin and metabolic poison and can cause fatigue, muscle pain and dyscognition. These bacteria imbalances can produce tryptophanase which can digests tryptophan that is the main building block for serotonin and ultimately melatonin. Tryptophan depletion leads to melatonin deficiency which in turn leads to sleep disturbances, mitochondrial impairment and oxidative stress as well as muscle fatigue. Finally these bacterial overgrowths can also produces D-lactic acid which is a neurotoxin as well as a metabolic poison in abnormal amounts.


    There are many contributing factors that can overwhelm the body's metabolism such ; lyme disease, viruses, non-cytolytic viruses, mold, toxic exposure as well as dysbiosis, endotoxins and even physical exertion can all dramatically affect the liver's detoxification process. Chronic viral infections and mercury toxicity have been associated with chronic inflammation of the liver and kidneys, further inhibiting PST enzyme as well as sulfate recycling. The sulfate transporters in the kidneys can be blocked by mercury which build up because of glutathione depletion. Sulfate has several important jobs that including sulfating DHEA and toxins including phenols from certain foods. There is also the NaSi-1 gene that can be inhibited by mercury and contribute to the faulty sulphate transporter proteins. Sulfate-reducing bacteria in the gut can also be a problem as it is needed to convert sulfate to hydrogen sulfide, which is toxic at high enough levels. Sulfate is also required for mucus production need for many protective functions in the body. Bacteria and yeast overgrowth can also produce hydrogen sulfide (H2S) that can bind to the mitochondrial enzyme cytochrome c oxidase, part of the electron transport chain in the krebs cycle. This can also impair oxidative phosphorylation and ATP production. When mitochondria become damaged due to a buildup of toxins, energy production is greatly impaired. Ultimately the mitochondria pays the price for the livers weak detoxification ability.

    Renal Na-Si cotransporter NaSi-1 is inhibited by heavy metals.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9486223



    The main focus
    is to prevent Apoptosis (cell death) and it's imperative that we start mitochondria supportive therapy and identify and treat gut, liver imbalances as well as intracellular deficiencies before the mitochondrial damage progresses to the point of no return. We need to treat the root cause and not the symptoms of disease. Supportive care needs to be considered at some point to maintain the best quality of life for those with long term irreversible mitochondria damage.


    Sulphation diagram:
    http://www.allnaturaladvantage.com.au/Sulphation_diagram.htm

    Salicylate Sensitivity http://salicylatesensitivity.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1401

    Phenols/Salicylates http://healingautismandadhd.wordpress.com/diet-2/phenolssalicylates/

    See more here: http://www.newtreatments.org/fromweb/sulfur.html
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    amaru7 likes this.
  4. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Senior Member

    Messages:
    161
    Likes:
    107
    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    Just took 30 mins to write out a reply to your post but net went and got deleted.

    Anyway, I know exactly how you feel as I'm in the same boat. Try out the pills, just don't do anything life threatening. I say that to you, everyone in this thread and myself.
    amaru7 likes this.
  5. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

    Messages:
    126
    Likes:
    65
    EU
    Alright this is the update. I changed it for a couple of reasons, first to not risk my health, second to save some expense and third to swallow less pills. Plus I have to get my doc monitor cu levels so I might add some copper.

    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    Jon_Tradicionali likes this.
  6. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

    Messages:
    126
    Likes:
    65
    EU
    Thanks for the info @Radio thought p5p like Pyridoxine was water soluble and that it reduces detox ability, I'll watch for not getting a too high dose. What do you think about the rest of my new protocol.

    Ps your posting before was way too long for cfs-me readers like myself, please try to summarise
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  7. Radio

    Radio *****

    Messages:
    453
    Likes:
    241
    The human body is a complex machine that cannot be easily described in a quick summary.

    The protocol is not bad. But, I think you need to focus on diet and eliminate 25% of your supplements.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2014
    tdog333 likes this.
  8. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

    Messages:
    126
    Likes:
    65
    EU
    Hmm I've been thinking alot about this treatment and right now I really can't decide between taking the whole protocol, an even smaller part of it or if I leave it completely, because I'm afraid I could make my health worse or at best it's wasted money. The only thing that I'll try mostly for sure is the HGH as it has a good effect on me without any sides, but some supplements had sides in the past.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page