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My recent road trip and what I learned....

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Timaca I got there w/ your blog address in signature; the one in your message didn't go anywhere.

Here's to the histamine journey:cocktail:. BTW, I had remarkable results in my histamine response when I started FMN form of B2. Possibly especially good for MAO snps. I wrote about it, in my signature.
 

Timaca

Senior Member
Messages
792
@Timaca I got there w/ your blog address in signature; the one in your message didn't go anywhere.

Here's to the histamine journey:cocktail:. BTW, I had remarkable results in my histamine response when I started FMN form of B2. Possibly especially good for MAO snps. I wrote about it, in my signature.
ahmo~ Thanks for your reply. The link does work when I click on it.....wonder why it didn't work for you......I have not heard about FMN. Thanks for the suggestion!!!

All the best,
 

Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
The thing I find about trips--even those that are very stressful--is that over time, the memories that remain are the good ones. You know, the sites, the companionship of family and friends, the freedom of being outside what can sometimes feel like the trap of home and a limited life. Of course, it's always a relief to be back home, snug in your own bed!
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
BTW, I had remarkable results in my histamine response when I started FMN form of B2.

@ahmo sorry if you have explained this before but how does FMN affect histamine and MCAS? Is it a certain brand or amount that you take? Do you take it prior to meals with other pre-food meds?

DAO is copper dependent ...maybe you are lacking in copper?

@aquariusgirl I take Daosin prior to every meal but did not know of the link to copper. Can you explain this more? Would someone with severe MCAS need more or need less copper? My doctor has never even mentioned copper to me so am now very curious!
 

aquariusgirl

Senior Member
Messages
1,732
Well DAO .the enzyme that degrades histamine is copper dependent..partially & I am guessing I am copper deficient cos a supplement called proper copper has given me a big boost recently....it's Mitosynergy. They have a website by that name.

Copper.".bioavailable copper etc is big in certain circles right now.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@ahmo sorry if you have explained this before but how does FMN affect histamine and MCAS? Is it a certain brand or amount that you take? Do you take it prior to meals with other pre-food meds?
I don't know the mechanism. it was suggested as an important co-factor for MAO, and as I reported in my blog, it's essentially eliminated my need for ongoing antihistamine and mast cell stabilizers, including Neuroprotek. I had no expectations for what I'd experience when I began it. It's significantly reduced my supps bill, as also my antioxidant needs decreased.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
Well DAO .the enzyme that degrades histamine is copper dependent..partially & I am guessing I am copper deficient cos a supplement called proper copper has given me a big boost recently....it's Mitosynergy. They have a website by that name.

Copper.".bioavailable copper etc is big in certain circles right now.

@aquarius girl Sorry for my confusion and I need to google all this stuff! Do you have MCAS and taking copper helps you or am I totally misunderstanding?

When you say copper degrades histamine is that the same as degranulates (meaning a bad thing) or gets rid of it (meaning a good thing?).
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
I don't know the mechanism. it was suggested as an important co-factor for MAO, and as I reported in my blog, it's essentially eliminated my need for ongoing antihistamine and mast cell stabilizers, including Neuroprotek. I had no expectations for what I'd experience when I began it. It's significantly reduced my supps bill, as also my antioxidant needs decreased.

@ahmo So you take FMN and this alone eliminated all antihistamines and mast cell stabilizers? I need to google this too!

I cannot eliminate anything now but trying to find things that may strengthen what I am already doing (but not make me worse!) I know it's all a crapshoot with MCAS and no two people are alike in what helps or in what they react to but trying to gather info to research further.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Gingergrrl I realized I have some further info you can look at re FMN.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-nutrigenomics-of-selenium.39405/#post-632511 at end of this post is an external link re FAD/FMN.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b2-i-love-you.15209/page-42#post-532708
aaron_c:I feel like I have not been thinking about b2 use as a cofactor in the right sense, so I wanted to share what I found.

The question I had recently is what Christine/DogPerson meant by B2 being “used up” by various other vitamins. Is it used up like ATP gets used up and becomes ADP? Or is it used up because there are more enzymes that require FMN (flavin mononucleotide, aka riboflavin-5-phosphate) as a prosthetic group--meaning it is more like a wrench that all flavoproteins (proteins using FMN or FAD) have to share.

At least in the case of recycling vitamin k via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NADPH:quinone_reductase, and B6 by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxine_5'-phosphate_oxidase, the FMN is not “used up,” but is simply necessary for the enzyme to function. I also found an entry for a quinone oxidoreductase that did not mention NAD(P)H as a reactant...but looking around on biogps.org, all I could find was something that probably used NADPH...

What I take from all this is that the reason why B2 can take time to go from depleted to replete is that it is “stored” in the enzymes that use it. Obviously the picture is somewhat more complicated. It seems to me like b2 acts a little like something that is stored and a little like something that gets excreted fairly quickly.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-histrelief-histame-daosin.10565/#post-186493

Rich VanK...links 2 research papers I’m guessing that you are referring to FMN. (There are two active coenzyme forms of vitamin B2, i.e. FMN and FAD. FAD is not available as a supplement in the U.S., but it is available in Japan as a prescription, and I think it’s also available in Scandanavia and in Russia.)

In rats (see below) and presumably also in humans, both the active forms of riboflavin are dephosphorylated in the gut before absorption, so if there is a deficiency in flavokinase, it would be a good idea to take sublingual FMN. If there is a deficiency in FAD synthetase (I have encountered one person with this, but it is pretty rare, I think) then prescription sublingual FAD would be the way to go.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b2-i-love-you.15209/page-42#post-533072

If it helps, out of ALA, NAC, taurine, and denatured whey, only NAC, taurine, and denatured whey would contribute to ammonia, while all four would contribute sulfur. From what you quoted above, b2 should help convert toxic sulfites to helpful sulfates. However, I may have found the answer

As you probably know, sulfites and converted to sulfates by sulfite oxidase, which utilizes molybdenum. Some people (myself included) find that we need to take a relatively high amount of molybdenum, else we run into sulfur issues. But I have been wondering if sulfur was not the only drain on molybdenum, and your case might be indicating this.

Although sulfite oxidase is not a flavoprotein (it does not use B2), xanthine oxidase, which also uses molybdenum, is. Xanthine oxidase interconverts hypoxanthine, xanthine, and uric acid. Uric acid, according to wikipedia (citing a study I cannot immediately get access to) accounts for “over half the antioxidant capacity of blood plasma” in humans. Perhaps what happened is that when you added B2, your body increased the activity of xanthine oxidase in order to make more uric acid from xanthine and hypoxanthine, thus quenching some free radicals. In doing so, it also stole molybdenum from sulfite oxidase, making it unable to convert sulfites to sulfates. If this all is the case, it seems like taking extra molybdenum might fix the problem.

Of course, as with any attempt to find a new equilibrium after changing supplement doses, even if this is right, it might not prove to be the end of the story. But perhaps we can hope.

If you would like to visualize this (I know this helps me) check out http://biochemical-pathways.com/#/map/1 and type “xanthine” into the search box. Hypoxanthine is beneath it, and uric acid (they call it urate) is to the right.
1 pg thread re co-enzymated Bs, w/ links :
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/are-coenzyme-b-vitamins-bunk.15280/#post-248247
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
@ahmo, @Sushi Wow, thanks for all the info! I just got back from an appt and will read it later. I will ask my Dr about FMN, copper, and some other potential MCAS supplements but was not able to ask today b/c so much other stuff to cover and appt was two hours delayed.

@Timaca I am sorry I took your thread off track and hoping the FMN info will be helpful for you, too!