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My nutrition

Discussion in 'Lifestyle Management' started by river, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    Hi,

    It might be that eating your food slowly and chewing it more helps to break it down and making it easier to digest. This would help stop it from reaching the gut bacteria. Digestion starts in the mouth. The smell of food cause the salivary glands in the mouth to secrete saliva, so even before we start eating the digestive system is primed and ready for action. Saliva contains various enzymes to aid the breakdown of food molecules. It also softens the food. The tongue, teeth and saliva work together to start digestion and aid swallowing. Teeth chop and grind food, breaking the food down into pieces small enough to be digested and increasing the surface area over which the digestive enzymes in saliva can act.

    It sounds like you have found something that has made a huge difference for you. Resting in between mouthfuls might give your body a chance to do it's job better. I'm chuffed to bit's for you. Let us know if this continues, it does make sense doesn't it.

    Best Wishes

    Glynis
     
  2. river

    river

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    Diet log:

    I'm following Wonko advice to reduce carbs but to NOT end up with a low-carb diet.
    First of all I have read that there's a large range of carbohydrate sensitivity among individuals.
    Some don't tolerate any sugars, refined starches or even fruits while others tolerate most carbs except sugars and others again tolerate a little bit of sugar too.
    Since I don't feel good, not even after two weeks, when I try to remove sugar from my diet and I seem to need a little sugar and I tolerate pasta and bread I think I belong to the last group.

    Since I have started taking pauses between bites and eating slowly I feel fuller even after small meals and I'm less reactive.
    To that I added some degree of carb reduction with a very small bit of sugar once a day:

    My diet today:

    10.00 am
    grain flakes with milk

    01:30 pm
    roasted potatoes and chicken breast

    5.00 pm
    yogurt and nuts

    8.00 pm
    two meat patties, half piece of bread, stir-fried veggies

    11.00 pm
    hard boiled egg
    nuts
    a square of chocolate (1 inch x 1 inch)

    Yesterday I ate:

    10 am
    fried eggs, piece of bread

    1.30 pm
    spelt soup and chicken with ham

    4.30 pm
    two biscuits, plain yogurt

    8.00 pm
    pasta with meat sauce, roasted mackarel, salad

    11.00 pm
    pistachos

    I have to say with regard to diet that I feel better, less bloated, less acid taste in the mouth, less nervous hunger and less post-meal spaciness.
     
  3. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    definately an improvement

    2 things to consider

    1. that diet is heavily dependenant on portion sizes - it could provide significantly less calories than needed - or significantly more - with a relatively small adjustment in the amount consumed - however the style in whch you are eating it should hopefully control this - as your not rushing consumption your perception of how hungry you are should be fairy accurate

    2. watch the nuts - I know to my cost that nuts are very high in fat, very small and very moreish - nuts are in most cases very good for you but I'd advise a degree of portion control with them - eg put a portion in a bowl dont eat from the bag lol

    I'm not suggesting you change anything just that as this is a relatively low volume calorie dense diet it's easy to misjudge things - so more attention needs to be paid than with the approach I use

    I'm happy it seems to be working for you and hopefully within a few months you'll notice the same as i did - it went from impossibly easy to get PEM'd during routine activities to being able to do basic stuff, with approriate rest, with much less chance of it - it's far from a cure but it gave me a little more wiggle room - which gave me options that had previously been unavailable to me
     
  4. river

    river

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    Is there anything you eat when you feel particularly bad (super cold, extremely foggy, sore all over, exhausted) that makes you feel better, as if it was a sort of medicine-food? I don't know maybe some kind of veggies or a particular meal you save for when you feel very bad and need a boost...
     
  5. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    painkillers, antihystamine

    like most people I'm genetically predisposed when feeling bad to eat rubbish - it's taken me a long time but I now accept that most of this actually causes me to feel worse both physically and mentally (but better emotionally lol)

    your downturn could be down to several things, insufficent calories, sugar (or some other form of) withdrawal, coincidental crash, die off(?), a lot of things

    being extremely cold would suggest to me insufficient calories so you could try bundling up and having a chocolate sandwich (take 1 bar of chocolate and put in the middle of 2 other bars of chocolate and then eat - no need to deep fry - that was a joke btw - but I'd suggest an urgent infusion of 300ish cals of simple carbs possibly followed by some fruit - not enough to do much but tell you if you feel any warmer - if you do then your probably undereating and need to address this

    edit - tho increasing your protein intake could also warm you up a bit - it didnt occur to me intially as in general my protein intake is adequate and tbh a lot of the time my problem is how to cool down
     
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    KEFIR - Depending On Our Hunches

    Hi River,

    I just ran across this thread today. I see you've received some good information/advice so far. I might just make a comment on your reference to "medicine-food".

    For me, that would be kefir (from raw goat milk). I've only been able to eat a relatively small number of foods for the past several years. Even with these however, I would usually begin to feel tired, or nauseated, or sleepy, etc. within 5-15 minutes after eating them.

    Just recently, about 3-4 months ago, I started to consume kefir on a regular basis. I've found it to be the closest thing to a medicine-food I've been able to come across. I NEVER have the normal reactions to eating I described above. In fact, usually within the next 5-15 minutes, I begin to feel a nice "warm" gently energizing feeling in my stomach.

    Just recently, I began experimenting with making this more and more a staple in my diet, and reducing most of my other foods. The results so far have been very good. In the past 7-10 days or so, the kefir has been about 90% of my diet. This has resulted in much less overall GI distress, and much less abdominal bloating.

    I posted more about my experiences on a thread entitled, "KEFIR - Depending On Our Hunches". Looking back, I wonder if I've had a "little brewery" working in my gut for many years (without authorization of course) :D, and I'm now in the process of shutting it down.

    Anyway, your mention of a medicine-food caught my eye. I think you're on the right track of thinking of your situation in these terms. I hope you can find a solution that works really well for you.

    Best Regards, Wayne
     
  7. river

    river

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    I have been experienced some digestive problems lately, expecially bloatedness, acid reflux and heartburn.
    So I drank only water for two days. Call it water fasting if you want.
    My blood sugar normalized without all the ups and downs and the digestive problems disappeared.
    I have read that to break fast you must eat for few days very digestible foods, starting with fruits and yogurt and then adding cooked vegetables, nuts and eggs.

    I'm thinking of sticking, for at least a week, to a diet of yogurt (I will try kefir) eggs, fresh ricotta cheese, cooked vegetables, nuts, green beans.
    What do you think?
    Will I feel worse without the starches and the meat or the diet is nutritious enough to sustain me while giving my digestive system a rest?
     
  8. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    I thought you got serious side effects on low carb?

    I also thought you had issues with fruits

    btw diet is not nutricious enough IMO as in order to make up calories you will need to eat a fair amount - eg a kefir shake may feel like a big meal to your stomach but 3 a day doesnt contain anywhere near enough calories or nutrients to live off for any length of time - if you throw in that your probably already very low on some nutrients........

    nuts, mainly fat calorifically (90% ish from memory) - a lot of it saturated, some protein - few other nutrients - some important but they can be obtained from small amount of nuts eg less than 100 cals worth

    cheese rough the same but with less nutrients - eg mainly fat - small amount of protein (calorifically) - that is almost all the calories in a lump of cheese come from fat - not from protein as most people think as they dont allow for the fact that fat contains over double the amount of calories as protein

    eggs better balance of protein and fat but realtively very hgh saturated fat

    so on your proposed new diet your mainly getting calories from fat, with maybe 25% protein (probably less) and very limited amount of other nutrients - which is why people eat meat and fish - as they are considerably lower in fat than nuts or cheese the amount of calories from protein per portion is much higher

    2 days isnt a fast where you should have to worry about breaking your stomache back in - tho a light first meal wouldnt do any harm a weeks worth is overkill

    ok - I've changed my opinion - yes you can get enough calories from ths diet - but they'll be mainly from fat, a lot of it saturated, and you'll be low on protein, vitamins and other nutrients - IMO it's not a healthy diet and I suspect you'll still get issues from the amount of nuts and cheese you need to eat
     
  9. river

    river

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    Yes, I skipped the fruit.
    I wonder whether the nuts, green beans, yogurt and ricotta are enough to get some carb
    I have reactive hypoglycemia. My theory is that my body overeacts to carbs, blood sugar goes up and then down.
    I probably don't tolerate low-carb because when my sugar is brought down by something creating a spike and drop, I need the extra carb
    to raise it a little. But it's usually a vicious cycle. I fasted without problem on water only, I guess because the blood sugar in this way self-regulates
    itself and it not disturbed by external food. I felt good, expecially my heartburn disappeared; so eating this way is a sort of prolungation of the fast.
    I wonder whether without foods causing spikes, I won't have lows and hence I won't need many carbs.
    If it doesn't work and, unlike during the fast, I get lows I will eat a potato or some mung beans.
     
  10. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    I had reactive hypoglycemia for over 20 years - then I developed type 2 diabetes and for a while felt fine (relatively - I still had ME) - because my blood sugar was always high I had no swings - so didnt get the side effects of swings - which was a great improvement

    the only way to fix it is via diet, the idea is to stablise blood sugar levels - keep them level ish

    there are 2 approaches

    1. low carb which keeps them low most of the time (the body can force a release of blood sugars in response to certain stimulous - such as morning - but other than this they stay fairly level and reasonably low) - a fast would come under the heading of low carb as during a fast you consume less than 100g of carbs a day - zero being less than 100

    2. eat a sensible balanced diet, mixing small amounts of simple carbs (bread, potatoes, white rice, pasta's etc) with complex carbs, proteins and fats to slow digestion causing blood sugars to be released from the digestive system at a slow controlled rate - the GI approach - never eat simple carbs without protein and fats - never eat enough to overload the system - it takes a while but everythign eventually balances - if your not actually diabetic

    3. eat rubbish, do nothing, develope diabetes, blood sugar permantely off the scale - no swings - nice stable blood sugar levels - until your legs fall off

    IMO the way you are suggesting dieting is not likely to achieve your aims in any respect - and tbh any appproach other than dont eat anythign at all one will take time - out of the 2 approaches the second is likely to act just as fast as the first provided you can actually apply it - and it's less likely to cause future health issues - low carb isnt a diet that the majority of people can survive on indefinately - as a quick fix it's fine but not long term

    all just my opinion
     
  11. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Just a quick thought and kind of from a different angle here, but have you had your cortisol, testosterone and thyroid checked? I know the hormones wouldn't cause all of your nutritional problems, but they may contribute to part of them (insulin resistance?)

    Do you take any medication like Prilosec, Pepsid or Tums even? How is your digestive motility (constipated or diarrhea)?

    It just seems like your symptoms are so diverse that the cause might be a little diverse? Either way I hope you get it figured out because I'm struggling with it too, but in a different way.

    I have not tried these, but have you ever tried the "Ensure" nutritional drinks. Your diet is kind of all over the place and I would hate for you to find out that your anemic and then have that to deal with.

    Hoping your better soon!
    JR
     
  12. river

    river

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    Thanks for replying
    For some reason I tolerate fasting but don't tolerate very low carb eating.
    Atkins used to suggest to fast for two days in order to kickstart the process of low-carb eating adaptation and to quickly balance
    a very out of balance sugar metabolism. Then, when he realized fasting is not very popular among americans, he started to suggest what he calls
    "induction", two weeks of very very low carb eating (25 grams of carbs daily or so) A lot of people feel awful during induction as their body slowly adapts
    to an extreme change. But many Atkins followers are nowadays using the two-days fasting method and this, they say, improves their sugar metabolism
    immediately and prevents the two weeks of induction misery. I have also read that two days of fasting can reduce insulin resistance by 60%.

    I was really out of balance to the point that anything I was eating was causing me some sort of hypoglycemic reaction.
    That's why I thought to try a quick fix to balance things out and get used to a lower carb intake. Indeed these two days of fasting
    balanced my roller coaster blood sugar immediately and I'm not experiencing ups and dowsn right now and also I don't have carb cravings.
    Because of fasting I have to eat for a couple of days or more, very easy to digest foods that don't overtax the digestive system who must slowly
    recover from the rest.

    In the next days I will switch slowly to your diet, adding carbs little by little and trying to find the amount above which I start to feel hypo symptoms.
    So eventually my diet will be: veggies, potatoes, beans, lentils, brown rice, tuna, omega-3 rich fish, digestible meat, eggs, nuts, kefir and fresh farm cheese.

    How does it look?
     
  13. charlie

    charlie

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    the regimen prescribed is quite good...specially olive oil contains easy to digest fatty acids so fatty deposition in human body does not happen...lentils and legumes are rich source of proteins.
     
  14. kevinchaapel

    kevinchaapel *****

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    Important in insulin and protactinium secretion, muscle function, immune and stress response, melanin synthesis, and cellular differentiation. The word vitamin literally comes from the word vital, meaning quite literally that vitamins are vital for keeping all of our bodily functions running. Vitamins are necessary in small amounts for normal metabolism and good health, making it possible for other nutrients to be digested, absorbed and metabolized by the body.
     
  15. river

    river

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    I seem to suffer from some kind of acetone or acidosis that causes a sharp vinegary acid sensation and taste in my mouth. No doctor have figured out yet what it could be but it seems to be triggered by an excessive carbohydrate consumption.

    The weird thing is that this acid-mouth symptom is accompained by cognitive symptoms like spaciness, vertigo and blurred vision but NO
    physical symtoms as I feel no stomach distress, gastrict pain, stomach heaviness. But somehow drinking water with bicarbonate makes both the acid in the mouth and the cognitive symptoms disappear.

    Any idea of what is going on?
     
  16. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    Newcastle upon Tyne UK
    Hi River,

    Have you thought about the possibility of d-lactic acid causing some of your symptoms? Dla causes the following symptoms: severe lethargy, changes in gait, slurred speech, or difficulty in speaking, hyperventilation, confusion, disorientation, dizziness, the feeling of being drunk without having had a drink, headaches, jaw clenching, carb craving and irritability. It is caused by carbs being fermented by bacteria, but is usually seen in short bowel patients. When carbs are stopped, it can take 3 days for symptoms to subside. The De Meirleir paper suggests it may occur in CFS patients. It is a condition that a gastro would diagnose, and treat and does not show up on regular blood tests. Path labs usually do not have the necessary testing equipment and a d-lactate assay kit would be needed.

    Here is a link regarding some of your symptoms in dla. You will see treatment is with minimally absorbed antibiotics such as metronidazole and sodium bicarbonae, either by mouth or by IV.

    http://www.amc.edu/academic/gme/programs/Gastroenterology/documents/wang_crohns.pdf

    Here is a link with a graph of dla symptoms

    http://hkjpaed.org/details.asp?id=577&show=1234

    Hope this is helpful.

    Best wishes

    Glynis
     

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