The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
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my neuro biogenic amine test results

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by vision blue, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. vision blue

    vision blue

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    I just got my results for neuro biogenic amines. Comments are welcome and if anyone else has taken the test or equivalent, i would be interested in comparing. i've also done amino acid (AA) test 3 times, but will talk about that some other time.

    Here are some things i've noticed and some comments. NOte that for highs and lows, I typically do not look at having to exceed the 95th or 2.5th percentile, but rather highs and lows with respect to other analytes in the test. So for this test, although only one thing officially out of range, there is nontheless some patterns.

    My dopamine is relatively high, as is 3-MT, but DOPAC is relatviely low
    My tyrosine is low , but tyramine is high (note from AA testing, my phenalanine is fine)
    Not sure if histamine is trending towards high.
    On this test glutamate seems fine, but on AA tests my glutimate is always high.

    My taurine is high, and GABA is up there- all sensible and will comment below if i don't run out of time.
    No elevations in seretonin, or its metabolite PEA, or in epinephrine (adreniline), or nor epineprhine (note this is first morning urine only which may make a difference; also, i had a test by another lab suggesting those were high, but i don't trust the lab)
    Metenphrines normal (agrees with a conventional doctor ordered test from ARUP labs)

    Some comments:
    Generally, i have symptoms of sympathetic excess that's like the sympathetic nervous system never quits, especially when i get an excaberation, and moreover have had side effects from tyramine-containing foods, so i was not surprised to see dopamine and tyramine (and histamine?) on the high side.

    On dopamine, DOPAC and 3-MT
    Dopamine is converted to DOPAC first using MAO while dopamine is converted to 3-MT first using COMT.
    Since my dopamine is high and so is 3-MT, I conclude I have no trouble with the COMT pathway. dopamine easily was broken down into 3-MT, hence it too was high. This makes perfect sense, since genetically I am an over methylator and had no troublesome COMT mutations. On the other hand, since my dopamine is high but DOPAC is low, I conclude that MAO did not do its job and dopamine was not broken down by MAO into DOPAC, so dopac did not rise. This too makes alot of sense. Years ago, when i realized i was having big problem with tyramine foods, i had wondered if i was in fact naturally deficient in MAO-A. i'm not sure its exaclty the right interpretation given these new results, but its involved. Genetically, i'm heterozygous for the MAO-A gene so should have an intermediate level of the enzyme - that mutation alone is not sufficient to explain why its not really doing its job.

    So one issue, is i likely have trouble having enuf MAO-A. whether ists just that its overwhelmed by too much dopamine (if so, reason unknown), or there objectively isn't enough, or somehow being an over methylator negatively affects the mao pathway, don't know.

    note also that I know much of dopamine is elsewhere, only 20 percent or so brain, and i certainly have GI symptoms - BUT since i also have brain/neuro symptoms for sure, to ignore this and say its just picking up gut or elsewhere in body seems incorrect.

    ok, so now i'm spent. I will have to finish typing my comments on the other patterns of results at a later time.



    screen shot of biogenic amines nov 2016.JPG
     
  2. vision blue

    vision blue

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    Let me keep going on analysis - i'll just mention one other thing for now and hopefully get input from others.
    Low tyrosine and high tyramine

    Sometimes people can have low tyrosine if its not getting converted from phenylalanine, but i don't think that's my problem beause if it was, i think my dopamine and tyramine would be low, not high. so instead, it seems to me my body is using every last bit of tyrosine it can get its hands on to keep chruning out dopamine and tyramine. Why though , i have no idea. I should add i am on as much of a tyramine-free diet as i can be, so its not from dietary causes.

    if anyone had a different though on the low tryosine and high dopamine and tyrmaine, please let me know.

    tyramine is considered a "trace amine", and in vertebrates thought to exert its action only indirectly, but work in the last 10 years have shown this is not the case. But work on tyramine and what it does is still decades behind study of dopamine and serotonin etc.

    Don't know why my body is trying and mostly succeeding in producing so much dopamine and tyramine. Also don't know what to do about it, without knowing cause. so for example, occurred to me if i starve it of tyrosine, i'd block productio- but then again i'd also likely block things I need.

    also, while i know that having an excess of these exicitory neurotransmatters is going bad things, and may lead to neurodegeneration i don't know if it would be even worse if i didn't have the excess- i.e. maybe its doing something protective i just don't know about.

    hope others have experience with all this as well.
     
  3. vision blue

    vision blue

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    Anyone have any ideas here? Am sort of stuck? thanks much.
     
  4. renski

    renski

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