Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

My Methylation Pathways Panel results

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Patrick*, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Patrick*

    Patrick* Formerly PWCalvin

    Messages:
    237
    Likes:
    239
    California
    Normally, this is where Rich would help (may he rest in peace), but others seem to know quite a bit about this panel too, esp. Fredd and others. I've compared my results to those of patients' who have posted here and they are generally consistent -- there's no question I have a block. [Edit: I have also read Rich's guide to interpreting these results]. But, does anyone know if these results can tell me where in the methylation cycle my block is, or if I should modify or focus the protocol in any way?

    (Bold indicates "out of reference range")

    Glutathione (oxidized) 0.55 ref. range: 0.16 – 0.50
    Glutathione (reduced) 3.0 ref. range: 3.8 – 5.5
    S-Adenosylmethionine (RBC) 207 ref. range: 221 – 256
    S-Adenosylhomocysteine (RBC) 54.4 ref. range: 38.0 – 49.0
    5-CH3-THF 10.7 ref. range: 8.9 – 72.6
    10-Formyl-THF 5.0 ref. range: 1.5 – 8.2
    5-Formyl-THF 4.70 ref. range: 1.20 – 11.70
    THF 0.50 ref. range: 0.60 – 6.80
    Folic Acid 10.6 ref. range: 8.9 – 24.6
    Folinic Acid (WC) 11.0 ref. range: 9.0 – 35.5
    Folic Acid, active (RBC) 306 ref. range: 400 – 1500
    Adenosine 25.4 ref. range: 16.8 – 21.4
     
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    14,438
    Likes:
    21,674
    Albuquerque
    Hi Patrick,

    Have you found Rich's guide to interpreting these test results?

    http://phoenixrising.me/treating-cf...esults-of-the-methylation-pathways-panel-2011

    Sushi
     
    Patrick* likes this.
  3. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes:
    217
    Syracuse, Utah, USA
    You have low SAM. What form of folate are you taking? Low folates contribute to this. From Rich's guide:

    I believe this is a common problem in CFS methylation problems, Rich mentioned this often. I treat this in my personal protocol with regular protein (some at every meal or snack) and extra B6, along with a combination of Fred's and Rich's protocols plus an oral rehydration formula (to help facilitate better detox function). Methyl B12 could help, but I would work up slowly. Here is a chart that shows the role of SAM in methylation:

    http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/cycle
     
    Patrick* likes this.
  4. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    5,328
    Likes:
    4,052
    N. California
    Hi Kurt--

    Some questions for you:
    When you say regular protein, how much of that is animal protein?
    How much B6 total do you take each day and when?
    By oral rehydration....do you mean just drinking more water, or is there something else in that H20?

    Thanks in advance~~DB
     
  5. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    5,328
    Likes:
    4,052
    N. California
    Patrick* How much did that methylation panel cost you?
    And can you give me the link where you ordered it from?
    One of these days (I swear! :rolleyes:) I'm going to do this test. Now can someone pay all my other bills...please.
     
  6. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes:
    217
    Syracuse, Utah, USA
    hi DB,
    A mix of animal and plant source proteins is what I use, and find is very important in keeping methylation working. There has been so much attention to the SMP supplements, but there are also other inputs to the process, and protein in the diet furnishes the methionine used in making SAM. Methionine sources are listed all over the web, just for example: http://www.ifood.tv/blog/top-10-methionine-rich-foods-for-children

    Anyway, over time I have learned what to do, and taking small amounts of protein with every snack seems to make a big difference for me. But I have not sorted out exactly which protein foods work best, although I find peanuts work well for me. So basically, a snack of peanuts can boost methylation, if your methionine levels are low (which is indicated with low SAM).

    B6 is also critical in methylation, and I just take one extra B6 daily in the morning (100mg pyridoxine form), and that really helps, but I also take magnesium (chloride form) at the same time, and it may be the combination.

    I use an oral rehydration solution (ORS) that I adapted from a W.H.O. formula for cholera (cholera dehydrates the gut terribly). That is a rice-based formula, cooked with salt, and I add supplements to help sustain the hydration levels and keep the blood volume up (and lower my OI). And this really works. The details are too complicated for a post, but I have a paper that I am happy to send to anyone who asks, as long as they agree to keep it confidential for now (not for posting, not yet anyway). So just PM me if you would like that paper (any CFS patient is welcome to a copy).

    The reason for rehydration formula and not just water is that due to HPA problems we have problems generally with management of blood volume, which may be due to poor aldosterone production in the adrenals, and/or the ACE deletion SNP. So the rehydration drink gets sodium into the blood more effectively than just water and salt hydration drinks can (again, that's explained in the paper).

    The combination of the B12 protocol and the ORS have been significant for myself and other who are trying this right now. Not a cure, but much more functional, lower PEM, better sleep, etc.
     
  7. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    5,328
    Likes:
    4,052
    N. California
    Hey Kurt--thanks!

    Why pyridoxine B6 and not P5P? And what brand/dose of magnesium chloride?
     
  8. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes:
    217
    Syracuse, Utah, USA
    DB,
    Some PWC seem to prefer one or the other forms of B6, I've tried them both and just feel better on the pyrodoxine.

    I just take one or two Alta brand mag chloride tablets daily, that is 520mg mag per tablet. They are wonderful, I discovered that form when I was trying to find ways to help my digestion, and discovered that it works almost as well as HCl, as it also supplies a chloride ion for making HCl naturally. The chloride form of mag seems to absorb very well and it's affordable. I usually take it with a meal (breakfast). And of course magnesium chloride will support methylation as well.
     
    Dreambirdie likes this.
  9. RosieBee

    RosieBee Senior Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes:
    84
    UK
    Really interesting and practically helpful information Kurt. Thanks.
     
  10. Symptomatic

    Symptomatic Senior Member

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    82
    Patrick* - how long did it take to get your results? When I got my Nagalase tested, it took something like 6-8 weeks for results. My doctor is getting some methylation cycle kits from them, hope to have my blood drawn next week, and am anxious to know the turnaround time.
     
  11. Patrick*

    Patrick* Formerly PWCalvin

    Messages:
    237
    Likes:
    239
    California
    Here is the link to the website: http://www.europeanlaboratory.nl/

    The cost of the test was $295. Yikes! Don't judge me ;)
     
  12. Patrick*

    Patrick* Formerly PWCalvin

    Messages:
    237
    Likes:
    239
    California
    It took a long time to get my results. I didn't follow up very often, but when i finally did after about 4 months, they said they had sent the results to my doctor "recently." So I'm not sure when exactly they sent the results to him. But I had heard from others that it takes a long time so I was prepared to wait.
     
  13. Patrick*

    Patrick* Formerly PWCalvin

    Messages:
    237
    Likes:
    239
    California
    Right now I'm on 800 mcg of Metafolin, as I'm still on Fredd's protocol. I plan to switch to Rich's soon to compare results.

    To be honest, on Fredd's protocol (which I had already been on for about 4 months when I gave the blood that was tested), I didn't notice much of a difference. Except my tachychardia actually seemed to get worse.

    How much extra B6 do you take? I'm currently taking 10 mg 2x/day as part of the B-Complex in Fredd's protocol.

    By the way, does it do any good to simply take SAM-e tablets? I'm guessing that would be too easy?

    Thanks for the information - very valuable.
     
  14. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    14,438
    Likes:
    21,674
    Albuquerque
    Rich used to include SAMe in an early version of his protocol. He took it out as many did not tolerate it. But if you are low and can monitor your levels, he thought it was fine to take it. I could only tolerate 50 mgs in the beginning but later worked up to 200 mgs.

    Sushi
     
    Patrick* likes this.
  15. Patrick*

    Patrick* Formerly PWCalvin

    Messages:
    237
    Likes:
    239
    California
    Thanks Sushi. Do you mind if I ask if you're still taking SAMe? Do you find that it helps?
     
  16. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    Messages:
    4,841
    Likes:
    11,024
    Patrick*

    How much B12 do you take? Which form?
     
  17. Patrick*

    Patrick* Formerly PWCalvin

    Messages:
    237
    Likes:
    239
    California
    Hi Adreno. Currently I'm sort of between protocols, so just taking 1000 mg/day of methyl.

    But for for most of 2012 (including when I had the Methylation Panel blood drawn) I was on Fredd's protocol, taking 1 tab of the Jarrow Methyl and 1 tab of the Source Naturals Dibencozide per day, iirc.
     
  18. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes:
    2,199
    Seattle
    Hi Patrick,

    I noticed your SAH was high. I read on the mthfr.net site that TMG -- trimethylglycine -- is the methyl donor that can help lower this. And this study using trimethylglycine and folinic acid backs that up:

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/6/1611.full

    "In addition, the high SAH and adenosine concentrations observed at baseline decreased with the betaine (trimethylglycine) and folinic acid supplements during intervention..."

    It was a small study, but it might be worth mentioning it to your doctor.
     
  19. Symptomatic

    Symptomatic Senior Member

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    82
    We are nearly twins...my data is posted over in this thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/hdri-methylation-testing-23andme-now-what.22132/

    I've also done 23andMe, have you? If so, how have your results affected your choices of supplements for the methylation protocol?

    I also noticed that your Folic Acid value/range is different than what was reported to me: mine had a range of 0.6 - 6.80 (not 8.9 - 24.6 like yours)....weird.
     
    Patrick* likes this.
  20. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

    Messages:
    362
    Likes:
    133
    California

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page