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A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
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My Hypothesis on Th2 to Th1 Immunomodulators in CFS

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by Hip, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

    It's too bad that irrigation can't reach all the sinuses.

    I've had what I think is a sinus infection lately, extreme congestion and a bad taste in my mouth. Since I have problems with oral antibiotics, I've used ABX in nebulized form in the past. At least the ABX is confined to the sinus cavities although a tiny amount is supposed to get into your system. This is an expensive way to go.

    This time I'm trying Sunwarrior Silver Immune Shield Fulvic Complex + Gold in an oral form. I'm taking 1/2 tsp. in a little water every hour and will continue for 2 or 3 days.

    The bad taste is gone, and my nasal congestion has eased somewhat. It's more the normal congestion I have. Also, it helps some with my back and neck pain for some reason.

    The reason I thought of this is that someone at Whole Foods had recommended this product to ward off an upper respiratory infection. It worked great. It's an 8 oz bottle, so I had a lot left.

    It's inconvenient, but worth it to me. When I'm out, I'm taking solutions that I put in little vials.


    When I first saw my ENT years ago, she told me that it's very common for sinus infections to be caused by fungus. She suggested taking a stronger probiotic as well as OrthoMolecular Sinatrol to control the fungus.


    It seems to have worked for the fungus. I never cultured positive for it again. I still get the bacteria sometimes, though.
  2. consuegra

    consuegra Senior Member

    GcMAF injections and probiotic certainly work for some people for some time. As Enlander says it is the best therapy to come along in ten years. The question is why is works for some people and not others and why it works for some people and then stops (particularly MAF 314 (Bravo probiotic). At this moment there is a GcMAF conference in Dubai and perhaps more answers will come from this. Cheney, as usual, is rethinking how fo make this work better. He has a restless mind and considers many options, often all at once.

    The surprising thing to me is that so many practitioners just give a drug or compound and do not think of the variables, such as are discussed in this thread. Certainly there is the possibility that some things work for some people and not for others and that is that. Conversely there very well might a variety of items that stand in the way of a particular item working. Shoemaker has a strict protocol, for instance, for implementing VIP, and he believes it will not work except when instituted in a certain order, in a series of steps. Cheney also is clearly aware of pretreatment for VIP and other items.

  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    I don't know that much about how GcMAF (Gc protein-derived macrophage activating factor) works, but macrophages can be activated into either an M1 or M2 mode, and this study says that M1 promotes the Th1 response, and M2 promotes the Th2 response (which is why M1 and M2 were so named).

    The study also says that "M1/M2 describes the two major and opposing activities of macrophages. M1 activity inhibits cell proliferation and causes tissue damage, while M2 activity promotes cell proliferation and tissue repair." In other words, M1 is the "fight and destroy" mode" of macrophages, and M2 is the "fix and repair" mode of macrophages. It is the M1 mode that has potent anti-cancer cell effects.

    But how does GcMAF affect the M1 and M2 modes? Well in this article:

    Overview of Macrophage Activating Factor and the Nagalase Assay – Potential for Control of Micrometastatic or Early Primary Cancer, by Mark F. McCarty

    it says on page 9 that "there is currently no evidence that GcMAF can influence M1/M2 polarization in macrophages."

    So it would seem that although GcMAF stimulates macrophages, it does not affect the M1/M2 balance, and therefore I presume GcMAF will not affect the Th1/Th2 balance.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  4. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

    Truth or consequences, nm
    I'm wondering if your sinuses are colonized with undetectable fungi (assuming condition not diagnosable or recognized by main stream) could your lungs also be infected. If so what's the point your sinuses are going to get reinfected by the un-addressed reservoir in your lungs. I've never been a big proponent of the mycotoxin theory. But I often got a condition I called "brain burn" which was/is a burning sensation in my sinuses or forehead area. Especially after mold exposures. So I do believe there might be something to the colonization (imbalance of good to bad pathogens) of lungs, sinus and digestive tract. I was thinking if you could maybe get a snot, phlegm & fecal transplant all at the same time from a healthy individual you might be able to turn the imbalance around. Lol.
    I always get a runny nose around (breathing) certain triggers and when eating certain foods. Also tend to cough up phlegm after eating certain foods.

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