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A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
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My Gut Crusade

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Beyond, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Just want to pick your brains before posting an update on 5-HTP in another thread.
    • What dose were you taking?
    • Were there any other active ingredients?
    • How long had you been taking it before you got the depersonalisation?
    • How long did the depersonalisation last, or did you stop the 5-HTP after it happened?
    • Were there any other symptoms that you describe as depersonalisation, or just the waking up in panic?
    Thanks.

    I think I am getting a little mood improvement, which started after a couple of weeks, but there were 2 or 3 days when I felt slightly weird just before the improvement.
     
  2. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Hey MeSci! I was taking 100 mg per night. Yes it also contained B6, Niacin, Folic cid, Biotin and zinc.
    The first days of taking it already happened. It just lasted a few minutes after waking up, but it was scary enough for me to stop taking it. I know I am a bit deranged already and I sense that I can get crazier plainly speaking with certain substances or actions (i.e. weed or the ouija board!). I just woke up several nights not knowing who or where I was for a couple of minutes which consequently caused panic.

    Well that´s pretty cool that you have improved mood!
     
    MeSci likes this.
  3. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Thanks, Beyond.

    I deliberately chose a form that didn't have any other active ingredients. I was particularly keen to avoid B6, as I seemed to have problems with that some years ago (numbness). That said, I found that the multivit/mineral I had been taking daily until recently contains a high dose of B6 (I have now cut the tablets to one a week as the doses of most things are very high). I've also been trying a melatonin tablet with B6 in it and have been OK.

    Before the improvement, which is quite subtle but noticeable and very helpful, I spent 2-3 days feeling a bit 'depersonalised' in that I was unsure of how I felt, what I wanted and various other character-related things, thus in a way a mild identity crisis, but not to the degree that I really didn't know who I was. I guessed that it was just the brain doing a bit of rewiring!

    I'm not getting too excited about the mood improvement yet, as it has only been relatively good for 2-3 days. I can only hope...
     
  4. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    @MeSci forgot to say that I already have derealization and depersonalization to some degree since becoming ill so it is extra scary for me to experience a worsening, even if temporary, of these state of consciouness.

    Also in some social anxiety boards people confirm 5HTP have this effect on some.

    Not saying I wouldn´t try it again with some courage if there is chance of brighter mood.
     
  5. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Sorry to hear about your problems. How's the crusade going?
     
  6. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Going good, which wasn´t expected. It seems the 3 month course of Propolis and the one month course of Seacure helped, and right now Digestive Enzymes and Hcl Pepsin are helping as well.

    I don´t want to screw up now with eating, but I´ll tell you that I am eating practically what I want (inside an "orthorexic" mindset!) without any discomfort and that includes whole grain gluten and even seldom organic dairy. Even raw honey!!!. This helps to make you look nourished because paleo diets make me clearly underweight and it´s a strain to buy and cook with these limited items when you are brianfogged, depressed, fatigued or pained.

    My eczema is very slight or gone some days but I am applying aloe vera cream there. I don´t think it is gone, or my food intolerances for that matter.

    I am thinking it would be a good idea to start taking Propolis and/or Seacure again if they helped so much, In the past I had lots of discomfort, it´s in this thread. Maybe I should finish off the leaky gut healing.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
    MeSci likes this.
  7. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    An interesting thing to notice is that since the few weeks that I decided to start eating gluten and dairy again I have had an slight but at times obvious pain in my throat which I have been pondering if might be an autoimmune thyroid attack triggered by the recent poor choices regarding food. I have stopped the presumed faulty items and we will see. Feeling pretty bad as well alltogether, even while my gut does not bother me.
     
  8. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Hey so I am going to close this thread with the announcement that I IDID IT! I healed my leaky gut!! My eczema is almost gone, I almost never have any discomfort, bowel movements are normal if you dont overeat things like figs... This is what worked for me, which I choose thanks to investigating in google scholar about intestinal inflammation and what not and forums like this one. I only did the supps for two months but mind you I´ve been on a horribly strict diet (google leaky gut diet, adapt that madness as you can to tyour life lol) for two years aprox:

    -Cod Liver Oil the best on iherb, highest retinol count
    -Propolis I took 6 capsules a day
    -Seacure
    -Digestive enzymes are also important enzymedica atpro best deal
    -I eat real organic yogurt or kefir at every opportunity, say a couple of times a week, I keep doing this
    -Raw honey backed by studies, watch out can aggravate inflammation when you are severe
    - I think I also took NAC for at least a month, NAG for at least a month as well

    In general superfoods and antinflammatory/antioxidant supplements (say pycnogenol, NAC, curcumin, grape seed extract) are profoundly beneficial for intestinal inflammation and autoimmunity in general. Foods are better than supplements usually, so start getting a daily dose of healthy alive stuff.

    I dont think my leaky gut is completely healed but with perseverance all should go back online. I want to start on Chlorella powder studies show massive healing of intestinal cells.

    My sleep is still a horrible struggle which in the worst days lumps me in a pseudo-CFS state of symptoms and in the best lets me work out heavy but I´ll get that with HPA axis and "depression" healing. At least now I can eat literally what I want.
     
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  9. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Hope it lasts, @Beyond - and good to hear from you.

    I'm having a bad spell. Wondering if it's due eating my delicious home-grown apples. But my gut isn't too bad (yet...).

    When I have recovered I will stick to one a day and see how I go (I was sometimes having two). Don't feel well enough to eat much at all at the moment. Maybe it's a Herx or a reactivated virus? I'm sleeping OK most nights, thank goodness.

    BTW did you know that exertion and leaky gut can increase interferon activity - which tends to lower mood?
     
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  10. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Apples are very good MeSci, don´t suspect of them!

    Hmm I don´t know my mystery illness is mysterious... hehe I mean if I dont exercise I might "feel better overall", less "drained and haggard" but when I push myself to workout my "depression" literally goes to the trash and I feel alive for some hours. Not to mention I start getting muscles again which people compliment a lot.

    I am pretty sure I have adrenal fatigue like some many in these forums but nothing has worked to correct it. I think is worth to check the adrenal fatigue route as well as the leaky gut, of course the chronic infection which a lot of times is Lyme is also very worth considering if one has enough symptoms.
     
  11. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    I got my leaky gut fixed too @Beyond. Not really sure exactly what did the trick though.

    I was avoiding caffine/wheat. Eating brown rice. While making blender smoothies with yogurt, raw honey, flax seed, and fresh ginger, apples etc.

    I ran out of filtered water, and the tap water about buckled me over couple weeks ago though. Might have been mold or something.

    Glad to hear you are doing better.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  12. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Jarod, this is however an ongoing battle. I have been getting some slight symptoms lately because of relaxed diet (ketchup with potatoes, mermelade with peanut butter on brown bread level of relaxed eating!), so I pretty much believe I will be on some kind of regime inlcuding Propolis, Chlorella etc and superfoods for around a year and probably the rest of my life. Leaky gut is no joke, it is at the core or at the middle of the chain of causality in a lot of socalled chronic diseases.

    There is a certain point in which supplements and foods become the same. This is a point in which the person is going to improve a lot IMO. A few supplements cannot be eaten in diet form, these should be taken in pills, powder, caps, but regarding any digestive illness, if your supplement is a FOOD then you are on the right track.
     
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  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I think it could be the sugar, @Beyond. As a vegan I think I have to be careful not to overdo the carbs in proportion to fat and protein.

    But my apples are so delicious, and don't keep very well, so I'm reluctant to limit myself to one a day.

    But now I'm thinking about them I am going to have one!

    I'll just have to make sure I have plenty of fatty and proteiny food as well.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  14. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Have been doing pretty good, though not cured as I still had eczema and unrefreshing sleep. Today after months of gluten and casein consumption my gut warned me blatantly with a clear inflammatory pain in one specific site. But everyone was complimenting me on how I look much healthier after all this time eating in a quasi-normal fashion (increased weight to the point of having the same of a healthy male of my age).

    I have Propolis and Grape Seed Extract for two months and will begin now with an hypoallergenic diet and stay on it for as much as it takes. Then I will increase propolis, double the GSE dose and start with a comprehensive digestive enzymes again. Shit, staying on a hypoallergenic diet is horrible, eating is one of the few pleasure I still have.

    My idea is lowering inflammation and the allergic respons as much as possible and optimize the digestion of all the expensive or nutritionally dense food I eat so the gut can heal itself, which is what it naturally tries to do but the constant immune alarms prevent it.

    Leaky Gut MUST be cured to heal autoimmunity or the illness will remain chronic.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  15. dan062

    dan062 Senior Member

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    Hey, @Beyond glad to hear that you seem to be making progress with your symptoms.

    As it seems to have worked for you, can you give me a quick overview of the diet you've been following.

    From your posts above, I can deduce that you were off:

    Gluten
    Casein
    Nightshades

    Plus I'm guessing all grains, legumes, alcohol, and coffee (it seems very like the autoimmune paleo protocol).


    Lol - I was starting to feel the same way recently, but I had a good think about it and realized that feeling healthy again would be way more pleasurable than just being able to indulge in eating whatever I want.

    I'm having 'analysis paralysis' at the moment trying to chose between: regular paleo, autoimmune paleo / leaky gut, GAPS, reistant starch diet, gluten-free, low histamine, and low oxalate (what a list!), but I'm leaning towards what you're doing and when I've decided what's best I'm going to give it a really decent trial.
     
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  16. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Hey there dan. Yeah the basics are no gluten, casein, soya and corn. These are the EVIL FOUR. They are extremely damaging for the gut when it is in an autoimmunity/inflammed state.

    Nightshades are pretty bad, and potatoes in particular might be problem, as their consumption is excessive. I personally really like them and they help with maintaining a good weight. So try a few weeks off and see how you do when reintroducing. I dont think they give me much problems, but I might be amiss. Need to look more into this

    Pretty much you are in the right track. My leaky gut is not severe and as you sensed is better now. Depending of severity you will need to get deeper or not into paleo and other awfully restricted diets, even start doing the bone broth hassle that takes like a day to cook?? lol

    Propolis extract and Grape Seed Extract are very useful for gut inflammation. Look for compounds that show strong antinflammatory effects in mice models of IBD. I can attest that Propolis cut right in the spot some serious pain I had one day from raw honey. I mean you will need to discover personal intolerances...

    I also know my leaky gut is better because I used to have insane cholinergic urticaria presumably from the immune response and I have been so good that could even exercise, but lately is slighty coming back BECAUSE of me indulging in the evil casein and gluten again.
     
  17. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    I have realised that is true... my libido has decreased every year since I got ill, since every year of every day having unrestful sleep. Every year I looked back and remembered stronger and more frequent arousals. This year I am entering a flat wasteland, and it probably can worsen. Libido is one of the things I notice more so it serves to gauge overall decline of vitality.

    It is time now... I am determined, motivated to heal my leaky gut. There this distinct sense of focused calm (maybe suntheanine?) despite feeling so haggard and tired, like a premonition of success. I have lots of tests that prove it the main root cause of all my 4 years prior problems and specifically unrefreshing sleep, other cases confirm this. Today I will start a full Paleo diet (bye bye grains, legumes, nightshades) and stay on it for as long as it takes. Fruit for breakfast, meat for dinner. Plus x leaky gut supplements. LETS DO THIS.

    My eczema is actually receeding already, without aloe vera cream. I will use it to calculate progress.
     
  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I too find that my eczema/dermatitis comes back a bit when my gut gets worse, and is a warning that I have made a mistake with diet, supplements or perhaps exertion. No topical treatments ever did much - if anything - to alleviate it.

    But since I found out that a leaky gut diet fixes it, and have continued with the diet, supplements and pacing as well as I can within the necessary activities of life, the eczema/dermatitis has never been anything like as bad as it had been before.

    I am still able to enjoy eating, but I don't seem to have problems with corn or soya.

    I recently changed my blood pressure medication from ACE inhibitor perindopril to beta blocker nebivolol, and started getting constipated, but found that if I eat one and a half apples a day my gut is just about right. That's half an apple more than I could cope with before the med change!
     
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