My Experience with Pyroluria and Copper overload-A Misfit Toy-Again.

[triplejosh2002]

okay, so on further reading of Walsh's Nutrient Power book (which I've read many parts over and over before), I realized I might be wrong in saying that an acquired pyrrole disorder may not be as severe as a genetic one that you were born with.

I was reading about schizophrenia but this might apply to pyrrole disorder as well as Walsh's theory is that with schizophrenia, overwhelming oxidative stress eventually causes alterations in the DNA and histone marks, causing an onset of the disease, by altering the likelihood that some genes are turned on/off. Walsh says this is proven to happen in cancer.

And so to combat the disease and/or be able to turn on/off the appropriate genes, much more of a nutrient is needed.

So maybe an acquired pyrrole disorder could in essence become genetic in this same way, and lead to turning on/off genes that create higher levels of pyrroles and consequently elevated excretions of zinc and B-6 for life, even once you get the copper and other metal offenders out.


But maybe you have not become a genetic pyrrole person. And regardless, your tingling sensations at relatively low dosages seems to indicate that you mustn't need too extremely high dosages to gain sufficiency.

Also on the thyroid issues, this seems to be a good article from Stop the Thyroid Madness. Seems like they are basing their recommendations on Dr. Brownstein and Dr. Fleschas work. I've read multiple of Brownstein's books. Notice again magnesium is recommended http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/2013/12/29/companion-nutrients-the-key-to-iodine-protocol/

 

[picante]

Also on the thyroid issues, this seems to be a good article from Stop the Thyroid Madness. Seems like they are basing their recommendations on Dr. Brownstein and Dr. Fleschas work. I've read multiple of Brownstein's books. Notice again magnesium is recommended http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/2013/12/29/companion-nutrients-the-key-to-iodine-protocol/

@Gondwanaland

 

[Misfit Toy]

@triplejosh2002 -thank you for that insight. Yes I am taking the magnesium. I was giving myself shots of magnesium sulfate but it wasn't doing anything after a time and I have permanent scarring on my butt.

I'm on 3 mg of zinc and okay.

My regular doctor wants me on B-6 in a very low dose. He wants me on B6 over P5P because the P5P was making me not sleep at all.

Will do that after a few weeks of zinc.

We shall see....as long as I am okay on the zinc and can up it, I'm making progress.

 

[Bdeep86]

@Misfit Toy I saw you mention that you are an overmethylator. Have you started anything for that or do you need to treat pyrrole disorder first? I think you will be able to get back to that point again, copper dumping is some nasty nasty stuff.

 

[Misfit Toy]

@Bdeep86 -I am high in copper...really high. She wants to treat copper and Pyrolles and then do the overmethylation, but I am on lithium orotate.

 

[triplejosh2002]

Hey Misfit, so were you taking magnesium while you were doing this protocol at first when you were being kept up all night by the B-6/P-5-P? Permanent scarring on your butt?! Man that sucks. Maybe it will go away once you are zinc and manganese sufficient, after decoppering yourself. Did you take turns sticking the needle in different spots to give the other areas time to heal?

How much magnesium sulfate were you taking? And I've never come across people injecting it like that. I heard rubbing it on your skin as a transdermal application is a great method as your skin is great at soaking it up, just like an Epsom salt bath. I drink it, don't know how recommended that is but it really helps me calm down sometimes.

It severely calms me down lol. It's taken me out of a panic attack 2 times! I don't use it all the time as my magnesium supplement; I take magnesium citrate moreso because I don 't want to get too much sulfur, as I read can inhibit zinc and selenium absorption if your levels are too high, and also make you anemic. But I really like the magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt). It has taken away some achiness that I've felt before as well.

But it also seems to cause detox symptoms, probably moreso from the sulfate (sulfur) which is great I think because it helps and is vital in the whole detoxification process, and we need that sulfur, and maybe many are deficient in, according to Dr. Mercola, especially vegetarians and vegans (of which I was and probably made my problems worse during that time, at least not knowing how to eat to accommodate the many potential pitfalls in the diet). I'll get slight achiness or slight fluish-like symptoms and headache sometimes hours after I've taken it.

I also believed I experienced this one day taking Osteo-Bi-Flex which is glucosamine and chondroitin (for joints) supplement with MSM in it (the organic form of sulfur, and people relate feeling detox symptoms from this).


I"ve had at least 5 instances lately though that when I get to feeling like that, one time really bad, then I take a selenium (from yeast 200 mcg), sometimes selenium and vitamin E together as they enhance each other's absorption, ideally with food because the vitamin E is fat soluble, and my sick feelings miraculously dramatically go away and my mood seems to become slightly enhanced too, for whatever reason (maybe just glad I don't feel like shit anymore? ).

I've compared this with taking Vitamin C, one every 10 minutes or so for a few hours, which helps in detox and I think helps in alleviation of detox symptoms, and it binds to copper and is a good adjunct to getting rid of copper in your blood, but the Vitamin C doesn't seem to do much compared to the selenium in this area in my experiments. I heard that selenium binds tightly to mercury and it might do the same with copper and other metals or whatever I'm mobilizing into my bloodstream.

And it is used as a constituent in making the master antioxidant glutathione, which may be its primary effect in helping in detoxification. But it may prove the best remedy for detox symptoms I've experienced, better than more magnesium, celtic salt, B-vitamins, Vitamin C (though these are all very valuable for the process), besides taking strong painkillers.

I know you're supposed to be real careful with selenium as the range between it being beneficial and becoming toxic is slight, and while 200 mcg a day has shown great health benefit in studies amounting to a few weeks or months, they don't know even know if it's generally safe at that level for longer periods of time.


But I think Brownstein and others may recommend 400 mcg a day, during detox of bromide, chloride, fluoride, and perchlorates from Iodine therapy, but I'm trying to be really cautious with it and sometimes skip a few days with it if I don't feel any detox symptoms, so then I figure I have some more leeway to use it more liberally on other days.

And sometimes lately I'm smelling it and it smells so good and it feels like my body wants it, lots of times concomitantly with feeling detox symptoms. I don't know if it's just formed associations but it really smells really appealing and good to me sometimes while I've noticed other times where it smells unappealing. I'm sorry; maybe I got a little off-topic from Misfit's concerns at the moment, but I thought it might be helpful at some point. I apologize to anyone bothered by my tangent, and i'll keep on topic if it's improper on this forum...

 

[Misfit Toy]

@triplejosh2002 -I gave up the magnesium shots and yes, I never went into the same place in my rear. I have permanent scarring and will hope that no one else tries it. I had it mixed with taurine which is supposed to cause the burning pain of mag to stop. It didn't.

My CFS doc says that mag is an irritant and it burns and ruins the tissues it touches. Better to do IV's.

I also don't tolerate sulfur. Never have.

The mag oil for skin does nothing. On Natural Calm for bowels but it doesn't stop anxiety.

Still working on all of this slowly.....still on zinc and mag Glycinate.

 

[triplejosh2002]

oh okay good to know. well keep it up and keep us all posted with any progress you're making

 

[Misfit Toy]

oh okay good to know. well keep it up and keep us all posted with any progress you're making

I sure will!