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My experience with DHEA

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by justy, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Just that it reinforces the notion that glucocorticoids are always immune suppressive and bad for us...when they have a very important immune function that can get out of hand.
     
  2. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    So cortisol perhaps opposes the truculent state of mind produced by high DHEA?
     
  3. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    well that's interesting because my cortisol is chronically low as well as my DHEA. Not sure if I should give the DHEA another go. My results were very low.
     
  4. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I don't know. Maybe it's cortisol, maybe it's another metabolite.

    It's just been my experience and that of others that I know that taking DHEA with low cortisol is usually tough to handle.
     
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    for me i found it easier to start with low doses of dhea and slowly build them up and then i added the pregnenolone.
    My dhea levels prior were well outside the normal range and cortisol were within normal range but only just within normal for morning blood test, not the high end of normal for optimal levels though?

    Pregnenolone cream has my morning cortisol levels right in the middle of the normal range and my dhea is in the upper 1/3 of the range on 25mg twice a day.
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    One thing of interest regarding oral versus transdermal/sublingual pregnenolone: someone commented that:
    Also:
    Source: here.

    I think transdermal pregnenolone cream would act the same as sublingual pregnenolone: these two methods of application both avoid the first-pass metabolism (the hepatic portal system). But oral pregnenolone will go through the first-pass metabolism.

    I take pregnenolone orally, but when I tried it sublingual, it did feel very different: it increased anxiety levels, and generally made me feel a bit strange mentally.
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    , post: 454546, member: 249"]One thing of interest regarding oral versus transdermal/sublingual pregnenolone: someone commented that:


    Also:

    Source: here.

    I think transdermal pregnenolone cream would act the same as sublingual pregnenolone: these two methods of application both avoid the first-pass metabolism (the hepatic portal system). But oral pregnenolone will go through the first-pass metabolism.

    I take pregnenolone orally, but when I tried it sublingual, it did feel very different: it increased anxiety levels, and generally made me feel a bit strange mentally.[/quote]
    Transdermal would be slower release compared to sublingual. Both though would avoid the first pass the liver metabolism. Oral pregnenolone I have never felt anything but transdermal I have noticed obvious increases in energy.
     
  8. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    It's the liver pass that converts it to other hormones. I think most people definitely want that.
     
  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I thought cortisol was made by the adrenals and sex hormones in the testes or ovaries and pregnenolone is the raw products to make these other hormones??
     
  10. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Well, I'm not quite sure how it works with oral hormones. But I have read several places that sublingual (or transdermal) DHEA reduces it's conversion to test and estrogen, compared with oral. I guess it's similar for preg. I think it is sulfated in the liver to DHEA-S, or PREG-S, but I'm not sure of the consequence, or which is preferable.

    Btw, micronized preg/dhea is also said to avoid first liver pass.

    When people tried sublingual, did you use the same dose as oral? Presumably, the dose should be smaller.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I think some aromatisation may occurr in the liver. I could be wrong but the hormones are fat soluable so maybe something is occurring during metabolism of these fats in the liver??

    I also think that dhea and pregnenolone have their own individual functions we dont fully understand, alot of info online only seems to look at them as a prohormone used to make other hormones. The term neurosteroid i have read, maybe they have their own individual neurotransmitter effects similar in a way to serotonin and dopamine etc. Some studies on dhea/preg seem to mention more about increases in well being and mood, not so much about down stream hormone production like testosterone.

    I think with transdermal hormones, they are released slower then other route of administration and i think this can help reduce the amount of aromatization of these hormones into others as maybe it the speed of these hormones being metabolised which can be a factor, eg i have heard that guys do better on dhea 25mg twice a day then 50mg once a day with reduce E2?? Sublingual i would think would be the opposite of transdermal in that it would be absorbed quicker so would have larger peaks and shorter life span in the body??

    My experience with dhea was that it did increase e2 and had little effect on my testosterone levels but it did increase general well being. Pregnenolone did increase energy levels and initially too much, i found using dhea with preg had a more balancing effect so wasnt over stimulated by it. Labs on preg showed it didnt do anything to my dhea levels which is the opposite to what i had read but preg did help increase cortisol and total testosterone, did nothing to my progesterone levels. I guess how our blood work pans out is very individual and looking at those nice charts showing how all the hormones flow down from pregnenolone and then dhea flowing down to testosterone isnt always the case.

    I guess the only way to know other then take the supplement and see how u feel, would be to take these hormones individually and test all hormones after 3 weeks of use and see what happens and then try the next hormone etc and combinations etc. It would be hard to find a doc to be on board with this testing as well as being able to afford the testing involved.

    My hormone testing is limited to 1-2 times a year, so i go by feel and when i think i am on a good dose for me i try to get tested and then adjust things from there.

    I havent tried micronized dhea or preg, be interested to hear others experiences with them.

    @adreno whats your experience with dhea/preg?
     
  12. Hi All,

    I am super new here (well, new to commenting anyway!). I had Cortisol and DHEA tests and got a different result. Low Cortisol (expected) and HIGH DHEA (?). The reference range for the test I took (saliva) was 4 – 15 ng/mL and my result was 17ng/mL. I generally feel (and smell like) everything @justy described above, I wonder how much high DHEA contributes. Ah, my first comment and I'm already talking about my B.O.!

    The only info I can really find on low Cort/high DHEA comes from sites talking about "Adrenal Fatigue" and it's "stages" (this combo puts me at the illusive "stage 6"). But the adrenal fatigue/insufficiency world as most of you know is difficult to navigate/integrate with traditional medicine, so it was kind of a false lead. @Ema, I noticed you talking about this in the other DHEA thread—how high DHEA precedes a DHEA drop-off, so I'll have to test again at some point and see if that's what transpires.

    I have read (again, this is just googling and not really verified—from Dr. Christine Northrup) that "Cortisol and DHEA are inversely proportional to each other. When one is up, the other goes down." hmmm.
     
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  13. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Sometimes they both just go down...

    And welcome!
     
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  14. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    yes @SquidProQuo welcome!! the sweating and B.O problem has been a big issue for me in the past - but in recent years not so much until I took the DHEA - stopped as soon as I stopped taking it (within a week)
     
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  15. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    I probably couldn't get through the day without them, especially pregnenolone. If I don't take preg, I get a severe crash the following afternoon, probably from a drop in cortisol (I have low levels). Without DHEA I become weepy, wimpy & weak, tired and my OI gets worse.

    I find that you need to balance them, and I need more preg than DHEA, a 2:1 ratio is good in my experience. If someone has low cortisol levels I would start with preg, as DHEA counterbalances cortisol. If you have normal-high cortisol but low DHEA, I would start with DHEA.

    I'm taking 50mg preg (oral) and 12.5mg DHEA (sublingual). I was taking 25mg oral DHEA earlier, but I have some liver issues pt, and the oral DHEA makes that worse.
     
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  16. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    @adreno do u use the preg matrix? ? I have heard it has a better absorption rate then other oral press? I have never tried that version only a basic oral version from biovea.

    For me preg seems to increase cortisol and as you say probably a good thing to start with. My cortisol level rose from just in the normal range to the middle of normal range. So helps my cortisol too.

    Do u get a good energy effect from hydrocortisone?
     
  17. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Since pregneolone is a GABA antagonist, does anyone see any issues with taking it along with benzos?
     
  18. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    [quo"Ema, post: 454912, member: 4199"]Since pregneolone is a GABA antagonist, does anyone see any issues with taking it along with benzos?[/quote]

    Not really. I only use preg in the morning and use a benzo at night. I haven't seen any issues with this??
     
  19. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Not really. I only use preg in the morning and use a benzo at night. I haven't seen any issues with this??[/quote]
    I took them together at night once and had some bizarre head feelings...and have been afraid to take them together at all since. Just curious if you'd noticed anything. It could have been a one-off.
     
  20. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    [qote="Ema, post: 454916, member: 4199"]Not really. I only use preg in the morning and use a benzo at night. I haven't seen any issues with this??[/quote]
    I took them together at night once and had some bizarre head feelings...and have been afraid to take them together at all since. Just curious if you'd noticed anything. It could have been a one-off.[/quote]

    I have heard it make people sleepy also but i think it's certain oral versions as it converts to a different type of pregnenlone, maybe this was at higher dose too. Can't remember the specifics. Or may have had something to do with progesterone production or something like that? ?
     

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