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My Dr wants me to take 800mcg of Folic acid a day, what product should I use?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by *GG*, Nov 8, 2014.

  1. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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  2. deleder2k

    deleder2k Senior Member

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  3. maddietod

    maddietod Senior Member

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    You're up on the whole folic acid vs folinic debate, right? Dr. Rey was so worried than my (Thorne) B multi might have folic acid in it that she looked it up while I sat with her.

    That said, I think all folic acid is the same.
     
  4. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Not sure, I tried Prescription folinic acid at one point and time. What am I missing?

    GG
     
  5. maddietod

    maddietod Senior Member

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    I can't remember the details. It might only be an issue for people with B12 methylation genetic issues. We can't process folic acid? It interferes with the methylation cycle? We stockpile it?

    I take "folate (as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate)".

    This might be useful information.
     
  6. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    If I were you I would try methylfolate, often known as Metafolin, instead of folic acid.

    Folic acid is a synthetic form of folate. In order to be metabolized and used by us, folic acid needs to be converted into folate by our bodies. If this doesn't happen, this can cause severe problems. Folate is what our bodies actually need, not folic acid. Some 30% to 40% of the population have difficulty converting folic acid into folate, a form useable by the body. And folic acid competes with folate for absorption so folic acid can actually cause a folate deficiency.

    I'm guessing your folate numbers are low which is why your doctor wants you to take folic acid. But most docs are not up on the issues of folate vs. folic acid. And if your folate numbers are low, I think there's a good chance you're one of the people who utilize folate much better than folic acid. My energy increased markedly when I cut out folic acid and started taking folate instead.

    A very good product is http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Folate-...disc=0&lc=en-US&w=folate&rc=1303&sr=null&ic=2

    Mary
     
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  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Try watching my video series Methylation Made Easy - the first link in my signature below.

    99% of the people on here whose genes I have seen have MTHFR, which means they don't process folic acid well. It's best to supplement with methylfolate instead, which is the active version, already converted for you.

    Then if you're taking methylfolate, you're actually manipulating the methylation cycle whether you realize it or not. You may need B12 in addition to methylfolate. If you only take methylfolate and not B12, you may cause methyl trapping, and deplete B12. Then you'll be worse off.

    Unfortunately, it's complex. Everything is interrelated. There are several other co-factors besides those two B vitamins which are needed to make methylation work right. The treatment has to be individualized for each person.

    On the other hand, a low folic acid reading might be a clue that you would do well with methylation treatment, and that you could get some real healing from that.
     
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  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  9. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Thanks, just sent them an email. Was ready to order, they take a week to respond typically, ugh.

    GG

    Edit: Think he did test me MTHFR mutation, and I have it, if my lousy memory is correct? Put this in the email also!
     
  10. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    That video link does not appear to be working for me. Also, want to mention that the Folic Acid of 800mcg, is replacing my supplement, CardioB which has 5mg of Folic Acid in it, besides B6 as Pyridoxine of 50mg, B12 as methylcobalamin 1 mg and 500mg Betaine (Trimethyl glycine).

    GG
     
  11. caledonia

    caledonia

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    It's working for me. Not sure why it's not working for you. Could be a temporary glitch or something.

    You reported you have MTHFR (not sure which one, but I would guess C677T). You also have low folic acid despite very high folic acid supplementation with the CardioB.

    For various reasons, there are several problems with CardioB. The only part of that supplement which might be helpful is the TMG which helps the secondary methylation pathway.

    So I'm glad you're not going to be using it any more.

    Bottom line - you should be taking methylfolate and avoiding folic acid.
     
  12. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    @caledonia This link above is what you are referring to, right?

    GG
     
  13. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Yes. That's the no background music version, for people who have cognitive issues with that.
     
  14. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Doesn't work for me, not sure why. Oh well.

    GG
     
  15. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Response from my Drs office, via email:

    "MTHFR gene defect doesn’t tell us if you’re under or over methylated. It just tell us you know a genetic mutation.

    Dr. said to try Folinic acid 1mg daily. If you feel worse, you’re probably over methylated. He said he can do the specific blood test at your next blood draw."

    GG

    Make sense?
     
  16. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Folinic would be an improvement over folic acid, unless you're one of the (I think fairly rare) people who don't process folinic acid well. Methylfolate would be best.

    I would think low folic acid on a test despite massive folic acid supplementation would suggest that you're under methylated.

    Your doctor is correct that knowing a gene doesn't tell you what your functional folate status is (how much folate is really in your cells).

    The next part I'm confused about. I'm not sure if he's referring to taking a more specific MTHFR test, so you know whether it's C677T or A1298C (or both), or some kind of folate test (as a checkup to see how the you're doing with the folinic acid?). Maybe he doesn't remember that you already had a low folic acid test?

    If you decide to try the folinic, my suggestion would be to start with a fraction of the pill first to test your reaction. Also have some niacin on hand in case you start feeling worse. The article from Ben Lynch below explains how to use the niacin.

    =-==-=-=-=-=
    Here is a good article from Dr. Nancy Mullan regarding only treating for MTHFR (which is basically what you would be doing by only taking folinic or methylfolate): http://nancymullanmd.com/category/uncategorized/

    Many doctors (and it sounds like your doctor is one) only treat MTHFR. They don't understand about needing to treat the rest of the methylation cycle with it, and just how sensitive and debilitated ME/CFS patients are. And how easy it is to make them worse.

    Here is another article from Dr. Ben Lynch on possible reactions from methylfolate (could also apply to folinic):
    http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/
     
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  17. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    What are C677T or A1298C referring to?

    I have been on Folinic Acid in the past, I took it as a prescription. FYI

    Also, have done Great Plains Lab testing, OATS is the acronym I recall.

    GG

    @caledonia
     
  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Those are two missense mutations on the MTHFR gene. Both are fairly common, yet C677T can cause a reduction in the rate of creating folate, and A1298C can aggravate problems from C677T or other serious MTHFR missense mutations.

    If someone has MTHFR problems, folinic acid doesn't make any sense, since it still has to be converted into methyfolate by MTHFR. But supplementing a normal amount of methylfolate (or eating a lot of vegetables) compensates for MTHFR problems.
     
  19. caledonia

    caledonia

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    If you've been on folinic in the past and you still have low folic acid, that's a clue that it's not going to be very helpful.

    Methylfolate is best like Valentijn is saying.

    OAT is a functional test that somewhat overlaps with the Nutreval test. It's a pain, but you can use the Nutreval Interpretation Guide to further interpret the OAT.

    My videos would really help explain all this stuff - are you having trouble with all Youtube videos, or just mine? Or just videos that show on this site? Have you tried going directly to Youtube?
     

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